filer media and water parameters - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
NoObLet's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area.CA.
Posts: 255
Send a message via AIM to NoObLet
Lightbulb filer media and water parameters

P.H. 7.6

ammonia(nh3/nh4+0) 0.50ppm

nitrate(no2-) 0 ppm
nitrate(NO3-)...?

my nitrate is really high how does it go up and how do i make it right this is why one of my discus died.

okay so i have had a ehime professional 2 and i think its time to change out my media because i been using hte same media forever and now my tank is showing symptoms of ammonia and nitrate and my discus started turning black and becoming..how do i say this un-buoyant...
So In my filter i have i have Eheim ehfimech at the bottom and then a Coarse Pad on top and then Eheim Substrat Pro with a carbon Pad on Top, What and how can i do to my filer media to be more vital for getting the best biological filtration? I have a lot of alge growth most likley do to tap water use, i was going to install a r/o water system very soon.
What else can i do to help my filter fully cycle because i think its something having to do with my tank cycle because the tank has been unstable for a long time maybe due to no chaning filter media?
PLEASE HELP! I can post water parameters if needed



Last edited by NoObLet; 03-19-2014 at 07:19 AM. Reason: adding more info
NoObLet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 12:51 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 5,576
Quickest way to lower nitrates is to perform daily 50% water changes for a week ,and then 50% once a week after that.
Keep filter material cleaned once a month,reduce amount of food offered.
If the Discus are larger than 4 inches,,then they can be fed once or twice a day, no more than you actually see them eat in a couple three minutes.
Best to offer a little food,wait until they eat it ,then a little more as opposed to just dumping or sprinkling in more than they can eat in a couple minutes.
Would not get too crazy with beefheart which is best used for juveniles that are small to help them grow fatter,quicker and can foul water quickly.
Adult fish don't need the protein that juveniles need to achieve fast growth,nor the frequent feeding's.
Temp around 82 to 86 degree's F would suit the Discus. They have high metabolosim's, and cooler water can lead to them acting lethargic,and increased chance that they can become bloated due to lower temp's which decreases the fishes metabolisim along with digestive process.
roadmaster is offline  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:53 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NE TN
Posts: 588
I can't tell from your post but do you rinse the filter pads in used tank water NOT tap water? If not, you need to do that. I rinse mine every time I clean my canister which is about once a month or so ( maybe longer now that I have pre-filter on it). I don't replace any of my filter pads until they are literally falling apart even on my HOBs.

As for the algae, as far as I know just using tap water doesn't cause it. Something is out of balance in the tank. What light are you using? Do you dose any ferts? Use pressurized C02?
sowNreap is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
NoObLet's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area.CA.
Posts: 255
Send a message via AIM to NoObLet
i got the co2 going and i have 4x36 t'5 running 8 hours 2 bulbs are pink and the other 2 are 6700k. i bought some brightly k today so imma be dosing that now. bought new pads about to clean my canister today and rinse WITH TANk WATER .


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

PayPal Verified
NoObLet is offline  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 04:02 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 11,721
Protein in fish food becomes ammonia. It can be digested by fish or decomposed by microorganisms, but either way it becomes ammonia.
Ammonia also enters the tank in the tap water if your water company uses chloramine. Some well water also has ammonia.

Beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces in the tank, but especially on the filter media.
They need high oxygen and a source of food. Ammonia is their food. They thrive in colonies that include many species of microorganisms, but I am just talking about the ones that handle ammonia.

These bacteria (a species similar to Nitrosomonas marina is the fresh water species) turn the ammonia into nitrite, essentially by adding oxygen to it. They release the NO2 into the water as waste.
Another species of bacteria (Nitrospira sp) use the nitrite as food. They add another oxygen and turn it into NO3. They release the NO3 into the water as waste.

When these bacteria are healthy, doing their job, and are present in the right numbers you should not see ammonia or nitrite in the water. You might see a bit of ammonia right after a water change if your water contains chloramine. Some tests will show that, even if your dechlorinator has locked it up. It should go away overnight or faster. The end result of these bacteria doing their job is rising nitrates.

When these bacteria are not up to the job you will see ammonia and/or nitrite.

Why these bacteria might not be up to the job:
1) They need carbonate and a few other minerals. If the water is too soft they do not work very well. KH needs to be at least 3 German degrees of hardness, and harder is better. (Not better for the discus, unfortunately)

2) This usually translates as a pH over 6.5, and higher is better for these bacteria. The problem is that when ammonia is present in the water it can be in either of 2 forms. When the pH is low, the ammonia is in the form of ammonium, NH4-. This is less toxic to the fish. When the pH is high, the ammonia is in the form of ammonia (NH3) and this is the more toxic form.
The catch is this: For the bacteria to grow they need ammonia and high pH.
But ammonia in high pH water is toxic to fish.

3) The bacteria might need more oxygen. A dirty filter that has a poor water flow will not bring the oxygen to all the parts of the filter, so the bacteria can start to die off in those areas. Discus thrive in warm water, but warm water holds less oxygen. You need to keep the filter clean so water will flow through all the areas. Old filter media might need to be thrown away, but you are also throwing away the beneficial bacteria. Right now, when you are having problems, I would simply rinse and reuse the media, even if it is falling apart. Rinse it in water removed from the tank for a water change.

What I would do in this situation:
1) Water changes. Make sure the new water has enough dechlor for the chlorine or chloramine the water company is adding, and a little extra for the ammonia that is already in the tank. Read the label on your dechlor. If it does not handle ammonia, then switch to Prime or another one that does. With each water change clean the floor of the tank. If it is densely planted you won't actually do a gravel vacuum, but get the vacuum close to the floor and among the plants to remove as much debris, fish poop and fallen food as possible. 50% daily is fine, and will really drop the NO3 pretty fast.
2) Clean the filter. On the day you clean the filter do not bother vacuuming the floor of the tank. Just siphon tank water into at least 3 buckets.
Take the filter apart and rinse the media until it is about 75% cleaner than it was. Do not get more aggressive than this. The way I do this is to gently slosh the hard media (Bio noodles for example) in the first bucket, then the second as the first gets dirty, then the 3rd as the second gets darker. Gently squeeze the sponges and floss, using the buckets as needed, dirty, a bit cleaner, and cleanest. By the time I am done with a long time neglected filter even the 3rd bucket can be black. If you want to use Activated carbon, then go ahead and replace this.
Repeat the filter cleaning in a month. At this time you can (if you want to) replace ONE of whatever floss or sponge is getting too matted to really filter very well. Do not replace all the media at one time. Sponges last for MANY years. It is very rare for me to throw away a sponge. The finer flosses do mat down and need replacing occasionally.
3) Monitor the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. When there have been problems with ammonia and nitrite, then the bacteria recover they can produce more nitrate. (This is good- you did not want the ammonia or nitrite hanging around, did you? Well, it has got to go somewhere!) When you get a good feel for how long it takes the NO3 to rise between water changes, then you can figure out a schedule of water changes (volume and frequency) to keep the NO3 under control.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Plants with algae.
1) DO nothing. The algae is helping to get rid of ammonia. If you kill the algae then there is more ammonia (decaying algae) and less ammonia removing things.

2) As the nitrifying bacteria get better, then as bad as that anubias is, I would trim the algae, just like mowing the lawn. Cut it off as short as possible and vacuum away the trimmings. Then do this:
With the equipment (filter, other water moving things) off, Put some hydrogen peroxide in a syringe with no needle, or an eye dropper. Squirt a few drops of hydrogen peroxide into the remaining algae. A few drops here, a few drops there, a bit more over there... Maximum H2O2 should be 3 ml /10 gallons. Wait half an hour then turn on the equipment. The concentrated H2O2 will kill the algae.
Alternative is to remove the Anubias and treat it outside the tank with a stronger dose of H2O2. Dip, let it sit in the water with H2O2, then give it a quick rinse in water removed from the tank, then return it to the tank. This is fine for any plant you can remove from the tank.
Beyond that, correct whatever conditions allowed the algae to grow in the first place.
Diana is offline  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 06:11 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 5,934
And you will notice two things. First is that the algae is mostly on the Anubias.
Because their leaves just stay there longer/take longer to grow.
Second it isn't very dense telling me it's not that easy for it to grow in there to begin/w.
You may think you need 4 bulbs in a 40B tank but not true. But working around that
I'd go to 7 hrs on them and if you might break it up. Say a 2-3 hr gap in the middle
somewhere. You have mostly slow growing plants and adding ferts and slow growing
plants doesn't accomplish much. It would help this whole issue if you were to use
real ferts. The high lights and CO2 won't do much if there is no food for the plants to use. It's all a balancing act which needs matched components to perform well.
I acually would suggest you put in a few stems of, for example Rotala in the right hand corner behind the anubias. It will add a moderately fast growing plant, shade the Anubias and justify light ferts being added. An all around healthier environment will
result. But light on ferts as you now don't have GSA, which will show up if it gets
some food. I have about half that much light and only run for 7.5 hrs.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome