The Fertilator vs Yet another Nutrient Calculator - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
I noticed big difference between the two.When selecting for ex. 18ml of Flourish Phosphorus dosed in a 10 gallon tank(US gal) ,the Fertilator shows me 2.14 ppm of PO4 is being added to the tank ,while Yet another Nutrient Calc only shows me 1.24ppm.Why the big difference?

Taken from ''The Barr Report"

" FYI: APC's Fertilator giving erroneous calculations

Had me scratching my head for a couple days on this one but I figured it out.

When you enter your aquarium volume in gallons, the calculation uses liters instead giving a result that is off by the 3.79 liters to gallons conversion factor. When you enter your aquarium volume using Liters, the calculation is still off by 3.79x.

To get the correct calculations for now, till they fix it, select gallons as the unit, but enter the tank volume in liters instead.

I have posted about this error in the Fertilator feedback thread. "

Can't come to work today ,Boss......I've got Bolbitis...

Last edited by Darkblade48; 03-07-2014 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 07:18 AM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,481
Bummer. I used both ~a year ago to cross check and numbers were very close. TY for the heads up.

(Darn programmers ).

v3

Courtesy * Integrity * Perseverance * Indominable Spirit * and Self Control
Tenets of TKD
OVT is online now  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
Hey ,OVT! It's actually one of your threads that lead me to The Fertilator ,the thread about your riparium.Stunning plants and flowers!
The quote I took from The Barr Report is from 2010 ,maybe they fixed it ,somewhat,by now ,but ,even after following the : "select gallons as the unit, but enter the tank volume in liters instead." ,still gave me different results.
Maybe the "yet another Nutrient calc" is more reliable? I don't have much experience with online calculators ,but this is the one I come across most often.

Can't come to work today ,Boss......I've got Bolbitis...
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 08:20 AM
Plant Whisperer
 
Zapins's Avatar
 
PTrader: (28/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 2,539
wet programmed both of the calculator programs. Perhaps he used different concentrations for that particular product in the coding? I've found other values match up well. Might just be a one off thing.
Zapins is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 08:57 AM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,481
I just finished taxes, so, might as well run the numbers through both calcs again over the weekend. It can't be worse then Schedule A? :-!

v3

Courtesy * Integrity * Perseverance * Indominable Spirit * and Self Control
Tenets of TKD
OVT is online now  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 10:14 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
The YANC calculator is now fixed. There was a typo for the P2O5 percentage. It was set for 2% but it's actually 3%. I'm not sure about the fertilator accuracy but the YANC is as accurate as possible now.
Zorfox is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 03:21 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
DaveFish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (15/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 310
A whiteboard/marker and a hand held calculator will always be more accurate than programmers. lol Plus everyone likes to round to a different value or not round etc... if you do your own math and stoichiometry you will always have the most accurate levels. There is an awesome guy on YT that will show you how. Plus it makes the hobby more fun and interesting.

Keep your sleeves wet!
DaveFish is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:44 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFish View Post
A whiteboard/marker and a hand held calculator will always be more accurate than programmers. lol Plus everyone likes to round to a different value or not round etc... if you do your own math and stoichiometry you will always have the most accurate levels. There is an awesome guy on YT that will show you how. Plus it makes the hobby more fun and interesting.
+1, I still do it this way.
Use it or lose it.




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
+1, I still do it this way.
Use it or lose it.
Hi ,Tom,
Could you please give me a link to the ecuation that must be used?
I'm having a tough time finding out ,for ex. ,how many ppm of Fe I am adding ,per ml dosed ,from a solution containing 0.306% Fe ,in 25L water column.
I am not asking to calculate it for me ,I just want to know how it should be done so that I learn to calculate on my own.Thanks.

As I understand it ,0.306%=3060ppm (but-per ml or per 100ml?)
I then divide the 3060 by 25000(volume of water in ml) ,equals 0.1224 ppm - total,for eacch ml added?

Can't come to work today ,Boss......I've got Bolbitis...

Last edited by sleepswithdafishez; 03-08-2014 at 06:31 AM. Reason: edit
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 02:33 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
To be truly accurate you also need the weight of the solution. Guaranteed analysis are reported as percentages by weight NOT volume. However, since the doses we use are quite small the margin for error is acceptable.

Here's the formula,

Desired Concentration (as ppm) / % of element in fertilizer * 10

So if you want to raise Fe 0.5ppm in 25 liters of water...

0.5 ppm / 0.306% * 10 = 0.1634 ml/Liter

25liters * 0.1634 = 4.085ml

Be careful using this to calculate phosphate and potassium. Laws require manufacturers to report P and K percentages as if they were P2O5 and K2O even though they are not.

For potassium divide the percentage (usually shown as "Soluble Potash (K2O)" ) by 1.2 to give you the percentage of potassium.

For phosphorus divide the percentage (usually shown as "Total Phosphate (P2O5)") by 2.3 to give you the percentage of P. If you want PO4, which for our purposes we usually do, multiply the P percentage by 3.07.

Remember, the analysis is listed as percentage of elements by weight. So for example, don't confuse total nitrogen and Nitrate (NO3).

The molar mass of NO3 is 62.00501 as opposed to Nitrogen which is 14.00672 which means nitrogen is lighter. To convert Nitrogen to Nitrate multiply Nitrogen by 4.43.

The above formula also works for dry fertilizers. To get the percentages use a molar mass calculator (or do the math yourself if you wish lol).
Zorfox is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
To be truly accurate you also need the weight of the solution. Guaranteed analysis are reported as percentages by weight NOT volume. However, since the doses we use are quite small the margin for error is acceptable.

Here's the formula,

Desired Concentration (as ppm) / % of element in fertilizer * 10

So if you want to raise Fe 0.5ppm in 25 liters of water...

0.5 ppm / 0.306% * 10 = 0.1634 ml/Liter

25liters * 0.1634 = 4.085ml

Be careful using this to calculate phosphate and potassium. Laws require manufacturers to report P and K percentages as if they were P2O5 and K2O even though they are not.

For potassium divide the percentage (usually shown as "Soluble Potash (K2O)" ) by 1.2 to give you the percentage of potassium.

For phosphorus divide the percentage (usually shown as "Total Phosphate (P2O5)") by 2.3 to give you the percentage of P. If you want PO4, which for our purposes we usually do, multiply the P percentage by 3.07.

Remember, the analysis is listed as percentage of elements by weight. So for example, don't confuse total nitrogen and Nitrate (NO3).

The molar mass of NO3 is 62.00501 as opposed to Nitrogen which is 14.00672 which means nitrogen is lighter. To convert Nitrogen to Nitrate multiply Nitrogen by 4.43.

The above formula also works for dry fertilizers. To get the percentages use a molar mass calculator (or do the math yourself if you wish lol).
Thank you very much! Now I can practice calculating imaginary solutions till I get the hang of it!
"Lackeys ,bring me pen and paper at once!" lol

Can't come to work today ,Boss......I've got Bolbitis...
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 05:38 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
Here are a couple of articles about this if you get curious. They are about terrestrial fertilizing methods but the math and methods still apply. The second link talks about why the method I suggested won't be entirely accurate. Although, you can get the density. It's listed on the front of the bottle.

Example Flourish Iron

Net 500 mL(16.9 fl oz)
Net Wt. 525 g(1.1 lbs.)

The Basics of Fertilizer Calculations for Greenhouse Crops

How to Convert Liquid Fertilizer into Dry Fertilizer in Fertigation for Commercial Vegetable and Fruit Crop Production

Quote:
Liquid fertilizer active ingredients are expressed on a volumetric basis. The density of the liquid fertilizer is a key detail because it is impossible to know the weight of a liquid fertilizer before the density is known. Typically, the net volume and net weight are available on the liquid fertilizer label (Figure 3). The liquid density can be calculated based on these values. For example, on the Dr. Earth® label (Figure 3), its net volume is 0.946 liters (1 U.S. quart), and its net weight is 1.2 kilograms (2.64 pounds). Therefore, its density is 1.26 kilograms per liter or 10.51 pounds per gallon (2.64 pounds/U.S. quart x 1 gallon/4 quarts/gallon). This source is a 3-3-3 liquid fertilizer. A quart of this liquid fertilizer contains 0.08 pounds (36 grams) each of N, P2O5, and K2O (0.24 pounds or 108 grams of N, P2O5, and K2O in total) and 2.4 pounds (1089 grams) of water or other inactive ingredients.
Zorfox is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
Here are a couple of articles about this if you get curious. They are about terrestrial fertilizing methods but the math and methods still apply. The second link talks about why the method I suggested won't be entirely accurate. Although, you can get the density. It's listed on the front of the bottle.

Example Flourish Iron

Net 500 mL(16.9 fl oz)
Net Wt. 525 g(1.1 lbs.)

The Basics of Fertilizer Calculations for Greenhouse Crops

How to Convert Liquid Fertilizer into Dry Fertilizer in Fertigation for Commercial Vegetable and Fruit Crop Production
Thanks!!Although I am not able to completely understand everything yet ,I realised I actually like to spend more time reading ,than looking at my tank.The fun never ends in this hobby!

PS: I tried the ecuation ,with the same numbers ,and :

0.5 ppm / 0.306% * 10 = 16.34
Do I have to divide this result to 100 (because it's per cent?),so I get = 0.1634 ,as you got?

Can't come to work today ,Boss......I've got Bolbitis...
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:28 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepswithdafishez View Post
Thanks!!Although I am not able to completely understand everything yet ,I realised I actually like to spend more time reading ,than looking at my tank.The fun never ends in this hobby!

PS: I tried the ecuation ,with the same numbers ,and :

0.5 ppm / 0.306% * 10 = 16.34
Do I have to divide this result to 100 (because it's per cent?),so I get = 0.1634 ,as you got?
Sorry. Do the multiplication in parentheses first. Then divide. As you can see you just move the decimal place to the left one. I only added that because it’s a constant. Ounces per U.S. gallon would be 75 and pounds per U.S. gallon 1200.

0.5 / (0.306 * 10) =
0.5 / 3.06 = 0.1634

Then multiply times your volume in liters...
25 liters * 0.1634 = 4.085
Zorfox is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
sleepswithdafishez's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: under
Posts: 744
Again ,thank you.You've just become my all time favourite math teacher!!

Can't come to work today ,Boss......I've got Bolbitis...
sleepswithdafishez is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome