fert experiment looking for some discussion - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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fert experiment looking for some discussion

So I've been experimenting with my fert's trying to to make something more specific to my tank.

My question to start out is if I leave out the kno3 do you think i will have problems with k.

My tank runs high on no3, 40ppm or maybe higher. (even with 30% PWC weekly) if I miss one and go 2 weeks i cant get it below 40 ppm at all. I want to see if by eliminating the kno3 I can burn the excess no3 to the point where I can figure out what I need to add specifically

I made up 250ml of this

k2so4 14.5g
kh2po4 2.9g
mgso4 10g

to dose 2ml per 10g

do you think I will have a k defiency? Do you think the no3 will be burned off?

I plan on doing this for a month to see what happens. I just wanted to get some input from others knowing that some of you might already do this.

any input is greatly appreciated

Last edited by misterc007; 02-14-2014 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Correction
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 03:15 PM
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I think you are on the right track with giving it a month to see what result's are.
You can alway's add a little more K if needed (pinholes on leaves).
A month will also help you see what if anything need's adjusting with regard's to KNO3.
I might wonder though,, is the nitrate high from the tap, or is nitrate reading from possibly heavily stocked tank with perhap's a bit of excess food's?
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
I think you are on the right track with giving it a month to see what result's are.
You can alway's add a little more K if needed (pinholes on leaves).
A month will also help you see what if anything need's adjusting with regard's to KNO3.
I might wonder though,, is the nitrate high from the tap, or is nitrate reading from possibly heavily stocked tank with perhap's a bit of excess food's?
Thanks. There's no nitrate in my tap. I've tested everything except the water in the toilet. The tank has been running for 2 years 2 big angels, 10 neons, 1 cory and 2 other tetra's (50 gal) fully planted. I clean the filter pretty well but I don't vacuum the substrate. I believe that its just a really mature tank. I really make an effort to not over feed and I'm only feeding flake food anyway.

I was dosing 2 ppm per day (kno3) so the theory is try and run no3 down to zero and then adjust accordingly.

What I don't know is if I have enough k2so4 to make up the diffrence on the k
guess I'm gonna find out.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 04:37 PM
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So this is on a 50 gallon tank? What light are you using? Any co2?

You are running very lean of ferts, you are only adding 0.32ppm K and 0.09ppm P per dose. If you are very low light and low plant mass this would probably be ok but I would think you will likely have some issues with both K and P otherwise.

Not that you have to follow these guidelines but PPS-PRO aims for 1.3ppm K and EI goes for 7.5ppm K.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nilocg View Post
So this is on a 50 gallon tank? What light are you using? Any co2?

You are running very lean of ferts, you are only adding 0.32ppm K and 0.09ppm P per dose. If you are very low light and low plant mass this would probably be ok but I would think you will likely have some issues with both K and P otherwise.

Not that you have to follow these guidelines but PPS-PRO aims for 1.3ppm K and EI goes for 7.5ppm K.
That's not what I'm coming up with. I'm dosing 2ml/10 gallons so 10ml.

My calculator says I'm at .28 ppm k from kh2po4 and 1.37 ppm k from k2so4 for a total of 1.65 ppm k and .44 ppm po4

I'm not thinking that's going to be enough myself.

co2 is at 30 ppm based on ph/kh 6.8 and 6 and drop checker is green to yellow when co2 shuts off

Lights are t5ho 54w 1 bulb for 2 hrs and 2 bulbs for 4 hrs should be a par of just under 40 at the bottom of the tank

Last edited by misterc007; 02-14-2014 at 06:19 PM. Reason: add
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc007 View Post
That's not what I'm coming up with. I'm dosing 2ml/10 gallons so 10ml.

My calculator says I'm at .28 ppm k from kh2po4 and 1.37 ppm k from k2so4 for a total of 1.65 ppm k and .44 ppm po4

I'm not thinking that's going to be enough myself.

co2 is at 30 ppm based on ph/kh 6.8 and 6 and drop checker is green to yellow when co2 shuts off

Lights are t5ho 54w 1 bulb for 2 hrs and 2 bulbs for 4 hrs should be a par of just under 40 at the bottom of the tank
Crap, sorry missed the part about 2ml/10g, I thought you were dosing 2ml in the 50 gallon. Even that though is probably going to be too lean with medium/high light and co2.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nilocg View Post
Crap, sorry missed the part about 2ml/10g, I thought you were dosing 2ml in the 50 gallon. Even that though is probably going to be too lean with medium/high light and co2.


That's what I'm thinking. I did the 14.5g of k2so4 because I thought that at 15g/250ml it wasn't soluable (sp). Do you think it will accomplish what I'm looking for as far as the no3 goes thou?

Thanks for your reply!
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc007 View Post
That's what I'm thinking. I did the 14.5g of k2so4 because I thought that at 15g/250ml it wasn't soluable (sp). Do you think it will accomplish what I'm looking for as far as the no3 goes thou?

Thanks for your reply!
Yes I think you are good to go as far as the no3 goes.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 09:03 PM
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Why are you adding Epsom salt? Is the GH skewed? High Ca, low to no Mg?
Plants need both Ca and Mg. If you are correcting a low GH test simply by adding Epsom salt you are not adding the Ca that plants need.
If you need both Ca and Mg, then use a GH booster, perhaps Equilibrium. That also has K, but maybe not enough.

Other than that,

I used about the same amount of K2SO4 as I would have used of KNO3 (per EI guidelines), for some tanks that used to run high NO3 from fish food, so I did not dose KNO3 in those tanks. I used K2SO4 instead.

KH2PO4 is dosed in such low amounts it is not a significant source of K.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2014, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Diana View Post
Why are you adding Epsom salt? Is the GH skewed? High Ca, low to no Mg?
Plants need both Ca and Mg. If you are correcting a low GH test simply by adding Epsom salt you are not adding the Ca that plants need.
If you need both Ca and Mg, then use a GH booster, perhaps Equilibrium. That also has K, but maybe not enough.

Other than that,

I used about the same amount of K2SO4 as I would have used of KNO3 (per EI guidelines), for some tanks that used to run high NO3 from fish food, so I did not dose KNO3 in those tanks. I used K2SO4 instead.

KH2PO4 is dosed in such low amounts it is not a significant source of K.
Honestly, I don't have a gh test and I don't really have all that part figured out yet. I have been adding mgso4 to the solution that I made for over a year so I just left it in there. I do dose csm+b as well,10ml of a 20g/500ml solution daily. Do you think I should leave the mgso4 out? I'm ordering some new test kits soon and was planing on adding a gh one in.

Thanks for your reply!
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-15-2014, 01:23 AM
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If this experimenting with fertilizers is contributing to your enjoyment of the hobby, there is no reason not to continue. But, if you are feeling stressed, or are worried about the fertilizing, just switch to the dosing schedule in the tables in https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944 and spend your hobby time doing the things you do enjoy. Fertilizing rarely deserves much attention unless you like that part of the hobby.

Hoppy
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-15-2014, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
If this experimenting with fertilizers is contributing to your enjoyment of the hobby, there is no reason not to continue. But, if you are feeling stressed, or are worried about the fertilizing, just switch to the dosing schedule in the tables in https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944 and spend your hobby time doing the things you do enjoy. Fertilizing rarely deserves much attention unless you like that part of the hobby.
Thanks Hoppy, I've read a lot of your posts and I have enjoyed them all. Experimenting is all the joy for me. All my passion for the hobby comes from that. I'm no artist and can't scape worth a thing. Changing lights, co2 and ferts keeps me thinking and lets me escape from other things for a few moments every day. It's a stress reliever. Again thank you for your reply!
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-15-2014, 04:55 AM
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I'm with Hoppy on this, if you get enjoyment out of messing with the ferts then go with it, I personally have a weird (guess I would call it) knack for changing my tank out 1-2 times a year. I can start with a cichlid tank, then 4 months later change over to a planted tank, then 3 months later switch to either saltwater or cichlid tank again.

15g Fluval Flex - Will be a planted shrimp tank
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-15-2014, 08:22 AM
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I thought most enjoyed growing a nice aquatic planted garden as their goal? Fear not, I got side tracked a few years myself

But what is your ultimate goal?

That's really the basic question.




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-15-2014, 12:26 PM
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I'm fairly new to ferts so get anything I say co-signed first, but with "I only feed flake food" thrown in there, I'd think a bit less of the KH2PO4 would be in order.
In a post by Zorfox on a reason for using liquid ferts (from here not a pet shop)
as opposed to dry was that in a ten g tank "you only need about less than 100th tsp of KH2PO4" which is very hard to judge/w dry ferts".
So since I haven't a clue what is needed to get the needed amount of Phosphate
and then reduce in to be "enough" with that which the flake food contributes I am asking this as much for my own learning as for this particular application here.

BTW don't kid yourself/w "it's a mature tank" cause Angel fish are in the same category as Oscars and Plecos are when it comes to waste and figure 5 oz of Angel fish produce a higher amount of waste than 5 oz of Neon's so now how many Neon's are in that tank ? Because if each of the Angels is in weight equal to 25 Neon's...that might bring up the estimate of the stocking.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...

Last edited by Raymond S.; 02-15-2014 at 12:40 PM. Reason: BTW
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