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need help breaking this down
i am trying to use calcium gluconate and Magnesium gluconate to test out new fert, but i am not very good at breaking down the needed amount, please help me break it down.
i want to make a mix for calcium gluconate and Magnesium gluconate
500ML solution
50 gallon water
20ml per dose
want to raise the Ca at 1ppm and Mg at 0.2ppm, so what amount (Grams) do i add to the solution to get these ppm.
thank you and please do your best to give accurate answer, i will ROAK the person with "whoever is the first one to answer the question correctly will receive $20 toward any purchase on nilocg products"
i want to make a mix for calcium gluconate and Magnesium gluconate
500ML solution
50 gallon water
20ml per dose
want to raise the Ca at 1ppm and Mg at 0.2ppm, so what amount (Grams) do i add to the solution to get these ppm.
thank you and please do your best to give accurate answer, i will ROAK the person with "whoever is the first one to answer the question correctly will receive $20 toward any purchase on nilocg products"
DIY Trace/Micro/Macro Recipe
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Last edited by happi; 02082014 at 02:24 AM. Reason: update
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What is the percentage of your calcium and magnesium gluconate?
Anthony
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Planted Tank Guru
50.811g CaGluconate per 500ml
16.143g MgGluconate per 500ml
Calculated as the following:
1ppm in 50gal (189.270kg) = 0.18927g
MM Ca =40.078g/mol. You need 0.0047mol of Ca gluc to satisfy this requirement. MM of CaGluc is 430.373g/mol. Multiplied by the desired volume and formula MV=MV (500ml/20ml). You get this value.
EDIT: Accidently calculated mg for 0.5ppm. I have since corrected it.
Calculation is similar for Mg but:
MM Mg = 24.305 g/mol
MM Mg gluc = 414.60 g/mol
Making the possibly invalid assumption that your powders are 100%. Adjustments should be easy though if they are less than 100%.
16.143g MgGluconate per 500ml
Calculated as the following:
1ppm in 50gal (189.270kg) = 0.18927g
MM Ca =40.078g/mol. You need 0.0047mol of Ca gluc to satisfy this requirement. MM of CaGluc is 430.373g/mol. Multiplied by the desired volume and formula MV=MV (500ml/20ml). You get this value.
EDIT: Accidently calculated mg for 0.5ppm. I have since corrected it.
Calculation is similar for Mg but:
MM Mg = 24.305 g/mol
MM Mg gluc = 414.60 g/mol
Making the possibly invalid assumption that your powders are 100%. Adjustments should be easy though if they are less than 100%.
Fluval Spec V
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
Last edited by Jeffww; 02082014 at 08:14 AM. Reason: EDIT: Accidently calculated mg for 0.5ppm. I have since corrected it.


Planted Tank Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkblade48
View Post
What is the percentage of your calcium and magnesium gluconate?
Planted Tank Guru
I am working on this with Happi, here is where I am getting them from:
http://www.bulksupplements.com/calciumgluconate.html
http://www.bulksupplements.com/magnesiumgluconate.html
http://www.bulksupplements.com/calciumgluconate.html
http://www.bulksupplements.com/magnesiumgluconate.html
Planted Tank Guru
My calculations are correct then.
Fluval Spec V
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
Planted Tank Guru
Since they didn't give a percentage we can't use molar mass here. They do give the weights of elemental Ca and Mg so it seems reasonable to calculate from that information.
To raise calcium to 1ppm you need X number of "doses" (Each dose weighs 5600mg and contains 504mg of elemental calcium)
I'm assuming 1mg/L = 1ppm since we are dealing with water
189.271 / 504 = 0.3755
189.271 is 37.55% of 504mg
Since we want 189.271mg to raise Ca to 1ppm in 50 gallons we need 37.55% of the total dose weight which is 5600
5600 * .3755 = 2102.8mg
So to raise 50 Gallons of water 1ppm we need to add 2102.8mg of the fertilizer
500ml / 25ml = 25
25 * 2102.8 = 52,570mg
So we add 52,570mg in 500ml of water
Magnesium works the same way
Since we want 0.5ppm divide the liters by 2 which is 94.6355. So we need 94.6355mg to raise Mg 0.5ppm
94.6355 / 70 = 1.3519
So we need 135.19% of the total dose weight to raise Mg 0.5ppm
1.3519 * 1300 = 1757.47
1757.47 * 25 = 43,936.75mg
S we add 43,936.75mg
Check my math but it seems correct to me
To raise calcium to 1ppm you need X number of "doses" (Each dose weighs 5600mg and contains 504mg of elemental calcium)
I'm assuming 1mg/L = 1ppm since we are dealing with water
189.271 / 504 = 0.3755
189.271 is 37.55% of 504mg
Since we want 189.271mg to raise Ca to 1ppm in 50 gallons we need 37.55% of the total dose weight which is 5600
5600 * .3755 = 2102.8mg
So to raise 50 Gallons of water 1ppm we need to add 2102.8mg of the fertilizer
500ml / 25ml = 25
25 * 2102.8 = 52,570mg
So we add 52,570mg in 500ml of water
Magnesium works the same way
Since we want 0.5ppm divide the liters by 2 which is 94.6355. So we need 94.6355mg to raise Mg 0.5ppm
94.6355 / 70 = 1.3519
So we need 135.19% of the total dose weight to raise Mg 0.5ppm
1.3519 * 1300 = 1757.47
1757.47 * 25 = 43,936.75mg
S we add 43,936.75mg
Check my math but it seems correct to me
Planted Tank Guru
They claim their powders are 100% pure:
This calcium gluconate concentration is pharmaceutical grade and has no fillers whatsoever. It comes in a resealable bag and is meant to be stored in a place free from heat, moisture, and light.
This particular supplement contains no fillers of any kind. Each magnesium gluconate molecule contains 5.4% elemental magnesium.
thus molar mass should be an accurate representation.
They also argue that:
"Calcium gluconate is made up of about 13%"
which is patently wrong. Even going by their nutritional facts.
Each magnesium gluconate molecule contains 5.4% elemental magnesium.
This is also impossible. The only way to calculate this is using molar mass and if you did that you can't get 5.4% Mg. You would get ~5.8%. They used their nutrition label, which is rounded*** to calculate their mass.
***Additionally nutrition facts are rounded off and shouldn't be used for precise calculation.
see:http://www.nutrition411.com/forms/NLEARounding.pdf
In otherwords, your values are within the bounds of rounding error given by the FDA.
And finally the Mg is 0.2ppm. I made the same mistake before as well.
Fluval Spec V
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
Planted Tank Guru
If they're pure then the MM calculations should be accurate. I didn't read the entire label. It is funny now that I have.
First they say this...
Calcium LLactate has 13% which is more than calcium gluconate which only has 9% calcium content."
Then this...
"Calcium gluconate is made up of about 13%..."
It's actually 9.3124%
No doubt. In fact it's 5.8623%. That's a huge rounding lol
That's weird we both made the same error lol
First they say this...
Calcium LLactate has 13% which is more than calcium gluconate which only has 9% calcium content."
Then this...
"Calcium gluconate is made up of about 13%..."
It's actually 9.3124%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffww
View Post
This is also impossible. The only way to calculate this is using molar mass and if you did that you can't get 5.4% Mg. You would get ~5.8%. They used their nutrition label, which is rounded*** to calculate their mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffww
View Post
And finally the Mg is 0.2ppm. I made the same mistake before as well.
Planted Tank Guru
yah but your method of calculating was equally valid. And for all intensive purposes is pretty much as accurate as mine. Are you by chance chem related?
And yah it was pretty funny that we both made the same mistake.
edit: in the end it might be better to email them and ask what % is their gluconate powder. For all we know it could be 95% or 99%. This is the real question at hand.
And yah it was pretty funny that we both made the same mistake.
edit: in the end it might be better to email them and ask what % is their gluconate powder. For all we know it could be 95% or 99%. This is the real question at hand.
Fluval Spec V
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)
10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
Last edited by Jeffww; 02092014 at 03:37 AM. Reason: %s
Planted Tank Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox
View Post
Since they didn't give a percentage we can't use molar mass here. They do give the weights of elemental Ca and Mg so it seems reasonable to calculate from that information.
To raise calcium to 1ppm you need X number of "doses" (Each dose weighs 5600mg and contains 504mg of elemental calcium)
I'm assuming 1mg/L = 1ppm since we are dealing with water
189.271 / 504 = 0.3755
189.271 is 37.55% of 504mg
Since we want 189.271mg to raise Ca to 1ppm in 50 gallons we need 37.55% of the total dose weight which is 5600
5600 * .3755 = 2102.8mg
So to raise 50 Gallons of water 1ppm we need to add 2102.8mg of the fertilizer
500ml / 25ml = 25
25 * 2102.8 = 52,570mg
So we add 52,570mg in 500ml of water
Magnesium works the same way
Since we want 0.5ppm divide the liters by 2 which is 94.6355. So we need 94.6355mg to raise Mg 0.5ppm
94.6355 / 70 = 1.3519
So we need 135.19% of the total dose weight to raise Mg 0.5ppm
1.3519 * 1300 = 1757.47
1757.47 * 25 = 43,936.75mg
S we add 43,936.75mg
Check my math but it seems correct to me
To raise calcium to 1ppm you need X number of "doses" (Each dose weighs 5600mg and contains 504mg of elemental calcium)
I'm assuming 1mg/L = 1ppm since we are dealing with water
189.271 / 504 = 0.3755
189.271 is 37.55% of 504mg
Since we want 189.271mg to raise Ca to 1ppm in 50 gallons we need 37.55% of the total dose weight which is 5600
5600 * .3755 = 2102.8mg
So to raise 50 Gallons of water 1ppm we need to add 2102.8mg of the fertilizer
500ml / 25ml = 25
25 * 2102.8 = 52,570mg
So we add 52,570mg in 500ml of water
Magnesium works the same way
Since we want 0.5ppm divide the liters by 2 which is 94.6355. So we need 94.6355mg to raise Mg 0.5ppm
94.6355 / 70 = 1.3519
So we need 135.19% of the total dose weight to raise Mg 0.5ppm
1.3519 * 1300 = 1757.47
1757.47 * 25 = 43,936.75mg
S we add 43,936.75mg
Check my math but it seems correct to me
DIY Trace/Micro/Macro Recipe
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Planted Tank Guru
Zorfox and Jeffww, thank you guys for helping us out so far, can you please correct me if this is right or wrong:
50.811g CaGluconate per 500ml
16.143g MgGluconate per 500ml
is this correct for 500ml solution, 20ml per dose in 50 gallon of water, each dose adding 1ppm of Ca and 0.2ppm Mg?
50.811g CaGluconate per 500ml
16.143g MgGluconate per 500ml
is this correct for 500ml solution, 20ml per dose in 50 gallon of water, each dose adding 1ppm of Ca and 0.2ppm Mg?
DIY Trace/Micro/Macro Recipe
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Moderator
As with any reagent, 100% pure is unlikely, despite what the manufacturer says. I would say 98% purity at best (quick search on Sigma reveals that 98% is quite common).
No. You are multiplying by number of doses there (20 mL doses in 500 mL total volume is equal to 25 doses).
Both Jeffww and Zorfox's calculations seem correct, though I only checked the calcium gluconate calculation (the magnesium gluconate is done similarly).
Quote:
Originally Posted by happi
View Post
isn't this suppose to be 20ml Per dose instead of 25 (bold letters)?? unless this is something else, i have no idea and please correct me if this is a mistake or something.
Both Jeffww and Zorfox's calculations seem correct, though I only checked the calcium gluconate calculation (the magnesium gluconate is done similarly).
Anthony
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Eheim Pimp #362  Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33  HPT2721253504M
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Victor Pimp #33  HPT2721253504M
Planted Tank Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by happi
View Post
isn't this suppose to be 20ml Per dose instead of 25 (bold letters)?? unless this is something else, i have no idea and please correct me if this is a mistake or something.
We first need to calculate a single dose then multiply times 25 for a solution.
Here is the math for the molar mass method. Rather than lookup all the masses for each element then make all the calculations just use a molar mass calculator.
Mass composition for Magnesium Gluconate (MgC12H22O14)
Mg 5.8623 %
C 34.7634 %
H 5.3485 %
O 54.0259 %
50 gallons is 189.271 Liters
Reduce the volume to the percentage we want to add which is 0.2ppm
189.271 / 0.2 = 37.8542
So to raise anything to 0.2ppm we need 37.8542mg
Since magnesium is 5.8623% of the mass we need to calculate how much we need to raise Mg to 0.2ppm
(X) * (.058623) = 37.8524
X = 37.8524/0.058623
X = 645.72267
So we need 645.72267mg of this to raise 50 gallons of water 0.2ppm
Since there are 25 20ml doses in 500ml we multiply times 25 to give use the total amount to add
645.72267 * 25 = 16,143.0667mg
So adding 16,143.0667mg to 500ml of water will create the solution.
If you do the math NOT using molar mass the result is similar. However as Jeff said there is rounding done so the total is not as accurate.
37.8542 / 70 = 0.5408
0.5408 * 1300 = 703.0066
703.0066 * 25 = 17575.1643mg
As Darkblade said, these chemicals are probably not 100% pure. So technically neither calculation is dead accurate. However, both are close enough. So to answer your question Happi, Yes those numbers are as accurate as can be expected.
Planted Tank Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox
View Post
The 25 is how many doses are in 500ml, 500/20= 25
We first need to calculate a single dose then multiply times 25 for a solution.
Here is the math for the molar mass method. Rather than lookup all the masses for each element then make all the calculations just use a molar mass calculator.
Mass composition for Magnesium Gluconate (MgC12H22O14)
Mg 5.8623 %
C 34.7634 %
H 5.3485 %
O 54.0259 %
50 gallons is 189.271 Liters
Reduce the volume to the percentage we want to add which is 0.2ppm
189.271 / 0.2 = 37.8542
So to raise anything to 0.2ppm we need 37.8542mg
Since magnesium is 5.8623% of the mass we need to calculate how much we need to raise Mg to 0.2ppm
(X) * (.058623) = 37.8524
X = 37.8524/0.058623
X = 645.72267
So we need 645.72267mg of this to raise 50 gallons of water 0.2ppm
Since there are 25 20ml doses in 500ml we multiply times 25 to give use the total amount to add
645.72267 * 25 = 16,143.0667mg
So adding 16,143.0667mg to 500ml of water will create the solution.
If you do the math NOT using molar mass the result is similar. However as Jeff said there is rounding done so the total is not as accurate.
37.8542 / 70 = 0.5408
0.5408 * 1300 = 703.0066
703.0066 * 25 = 17575.1643mg
As Darkblade said, these chemicals are probably not 100% pure. So technically neither calculation is dead accurate. However, both are close enough. So to answer your question Happi, Yes those numbers are as accurate as can be expected.
We first need to calculate a single dose then multiply times 25 for a solution.
Here is the math for the molar mass method. Rather than lookup all the masses for each element then make all the calculations just use a molar mass calculator.
Mass composition for Magnesium Gluconate (MgC12H22O14)
Mg 5.8623 %
C 34.7634 %
H 5.3485 %
O 54.0259 %
50 gallons is 189.271 Liters
Reduce the volume to the percentage we want to add which is 0.2ppm
189.271 / 0.2 = 37.8542
So to raise anything to 0.2ppm we need 37.8542mg
Since magnesium is 5.8623% of the mass we need to calculate how much we need to raise Mg to 0.2ppm
(X) * (.058623) = 37.8524
X = 37.8524/0.058623
X = 645.72267
So we need 645.72267mg of this to raise 50 gallons of water 0.2ppm
Since there are 25 20ml doses in 500ml we multiply times 25 to give use the total amount to add
645.72267 * 25 = 16,143.0667mg
So adding 16,143.0667mg to 500ml of water will create the solution.
If you do the math NOT using molar mass the result is similar. However as Jeff said there is rounding done so the total is not as accurate.
37.8542 / 70 = 0.5408
0.5408 * 1300 = 703.0066
703.0066 * 25 = 17575.1643mg
As Darkblade said, these chemicals are probably not 100% pure. So technically neither calculation is dead accurate. However, both are close enough. So to answer your question Happi, Yes those numbers are as accurate as can be expected.
DIY Trace/Micro/Macro Recipe
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DIY Trace/Micro/Calculation Etc
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DIY Trace/Micro/Calculation Etc
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