Phosphates and CO2 - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,149
Phosphates and CO2

So I've been doing some reading about BBA, high phosphates, and low co2. I'm slowly increasing co2 levels to see if it fixes everything (http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/showt...242#post161242)
The argument presented in that post makes sense to me.
My question though is that if the use of phosphate based buffers invalidate the ph/kh/co2 relationship (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...tml#post448364) then does that mean if one were to dose mono potassium phosphates to 15ppm it would also invalidate the relationship?

-Neil
neilshieh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 11:49 PM
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto/Singapore
Posts: 11,643
The pH/kH/Co2 relationship only works if the only thing buffering the water is carbonates/bicarbonates. If you have other things buffering the water (such as phosphates), then it will be skewed a bit.

Thus, if you were to heavily dose a phosphate, then yes, it would ultimately affect the relationship. It would not be invalidated entirely, but there would be a skew.

Anthony


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,149
What does the skew look like? should i still be trying to get green on the drop checker or yellow? or is the drop checker entirely useless?

-Neil
neilshieh is offline  
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 03:12 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
If you have 4 dKH water, made from distilled water and baking soda, with nothing else in the water, in the drop checker it doesn't matter what is in the tank water.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 04:17 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: mesa
Posts: 501
Inaccuracy of drop checkers regarding micro bubbles!

A slight variation to even that would be: Micro bubbles getting caught in the drop checker leading you to believe that there is more dissolved CO2 in the tank water than there really is! Thats just another reason not to run diffusers unless you are running a nano tank.
Hardstuff is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 04:38 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
If you have 4 dKH water, made from distilled water and baking soda, with nothing else in the water, in the drop checker it doesn't matter what is in the tank water.
ahhhh this makes a lot of sense now. I was confused why phosphates in the water would invalidate the drop checker, now I realized that people meant you can't measure the tank water itself to determine co2 levels.

I run an atomic diffuser in my 29 gallon tank. Originally the diffuser fed directly into the intake but now that I got shrimp I put a foam prefilter and I decided that the foam impeded the co2 too much so i moved the diffuser to the opposite side of the tank. now i have a ton of bubbles in my tank :S when i had it feeding into the intake i got 100% dissolution. any ideas? i don't think the filter can suck in the bubbles through the foam...

-Neil

Last edited by neilshieh; 02-05-2014 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Back to back posts
neilshieh is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 04:55 AM
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto/Singapore
Posts: 11,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilshieh View Post
ahhhh this makes a lot of sense now. I was confused why phosphates in the water would invalidate the drop checker, now I realized that people meant you can't measure the tank water itself to determine co2 levels.
Yes, this is another reason why you should not use aquarium water in a drop checker (despite what some instruction pamphlets say).

Anthony


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 09:16 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardstuff View Post
A slight variation to even that would be: Micro bubbles getting caught in the drop checker leading you to believe that there is more dissolved CO2 in the tank water than there really is! Thats just another reason not to run diffusers unless you are running a nano tank.
CO2 bubbles in the drop checker should not make it read incorrectly. Those bubbles will dissolve into the water in the drop checker, making it have more CO2 in solution than the tank water has, which causes CO2 to leave the drop checker water faster than it comes back from the tank water, leading it back to equilibrium with the tank water.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 10:27 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York City.
Posts: 1,974
Generally, a 1 degree drop in your ph would indicate about 30+ppm of CO2. I shoot for 1.3 degree drop. Also, as far as I understand, the present of CO2 in the water will cause the PH to drop regardless how much buffer agents you have in the water. The more buffer agents you have in the water, the higher your PH would be when completely gassing off most of the CO2.


Canon Pimp Club #005
tetra73 is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2014, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,149
I decided to get a stainless prefilter from han so that I can have the benefits of a prefilter and still run the diffuser under the intake.

-Neil
neilshieh is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome