Where to buy CSM --- Not CSM+B? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Where to buy CSM --- Not CSM+B?

Does anyone know where I can buy regular CSM. Not CSM+B? Do they even still make it?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 06:01 PM
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I believe Plantex is now Nutritrace CSM. It's my understanding that resellers add the boron.

The distributor list

As interested as you are about trace nutrients why not obtain the individual components and make your own. Then you can test toxicity levels for each one.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
I believe Plantex is now Nutritrace CSM. It's my understanding that resellers add the boron.

The distributor list
I had a look at that site and couldn't find CSM or any mixed micro fertilizer for sale.

This is their page for micros:
http://www.plantprod.com/plantex/Pro...aspx?CatID=111

I also sent Julia at aquariumfertilizer.com an email asking if she has any normal CSM, perhaps she can sell me some before she adds the boron.

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As interested as you are about trace nutrients why not obtain the individual components and make your own. Then you can test toxicity levels for each one.
Yes I have several already. I am doing tests already for toxicities. I am interested in the CSM without B because I'd like to see first hand what boron deficiency looks like in a wider variety of plants than we currently have pictures of.

I suppose I could make my own micro solution, that would give me the most control over the process, but it is a fiddly affair and I do not have a very accurate scale, so making it myself would be difficult to do accurately.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 06:44 PM
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You could just buy all of the components that you want to dose from nilocg. He's great to deal with and has good prices. He might even have a CSM mix, I'm not too sure. Look at his sale thread or send him a PM.

My tanks:

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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I'll send nilocg a message. Does he own a website for fertilizers? If so which one?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 06:58 PM
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I'll send nilocg a message. Does he own a website for fertilizers? If so which one?
Pm returned, yes I have it. I dont have a website but would like to set one up just dont know how. Anyone good with websites???
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
I had a look at that site and couldn't find CSM or any mixed micro fertilizer for sale.

This is their page for micros:
http://www.plantprod.com/plantex/Pro...aspx?CatID=111
It is listed under new products.

However...

Apparently, MGS Horticultural, Inc. purchased Plant Products Co. Ltd (the manufacturer of Platex CSM) in April of last year, (letter of intent).. Looking at their site they have a Trace mix called Plant-Prod cheated micro-nutrient mix made by Plant Products. I wonder if the original Plantex is no more?


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Yes I have several already. I am doing tests already for toxicities. I am interested in the CSM without B because I'd like to see first hand what boron deficiency looks like in a wider variety of plants than we currently have pictures of.
Make sure you don't use fish food with boron. Many foods supply ample boron. Maybe a tank without inhabitants to feed.

I've often wondered how accurate the analysis of the final mix we create in solutions is. It seems to settle out, lines of different colored powders in mine. I always mix the dry fertilizers first but who knows.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Make sure you don't use fish food with boron. Many foods supply ample boron. Maybe a tank without inhabitants to feed.
I have 3 small 2.5 g tanks setup under the same light each with CO2, a small heater and a powerhead for circulation. No gravel and no fish. Reconstituted distilled water only. One tank is the control, the other two tanks can be used to test a nutrient deficiency/toxicity each and be compared with control.

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I've often wondered how accurate the analysis of the final mix we create in solutions is. It seems to settle out, lines of different colored powders in mine. I always mix the dry fertilizers first but who knows.
I've wondered this as well, as has JeffyFunk. Some of the test results we have been getting make little sense unless the ratios vary a bit with each dose. I suppose more tests would need to be done to confirm this idea though. Perhaps we can get Jeffy to test some samples of CSM+B to confirm or refute the analysis mentioned. Maybe CSM+B settling does play a role in what micros are added to our tanks.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
I have 3 small 2.5 g tanks setup under the same light each with CO2, a small heater and a powerhead for circulation. No gravel and no fish. Reconstituted distilled water only. One tank is the control, the other two tanks can be used to test a nutrient deficiency/toxicity each and be compared with control.
That's a pretty nice setup. I should start stopping at more garage sells and pick up a few small tanks to play with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
I've wondered this as well, as has JeffyFunk. Some of the test results we have been getting make little sense unless the ratios vary a bit with each dose. I suppose more tests would need to be done to confirm this idea though. Perhaps we can get Jeffy to test some samples of CSM+B to confirm or refute the analysis mentioned. Maybe CSM+B settling does play a role in what micros are added to our tanks.
This is one of the reasons I prefer making solutions. Mixing my entire bag well then adding a large amount reduces those variables. Adding a tiny amount of dry Plantex seems prone to errors IMO.

Here is a close approximation to Plantex CSM + B. Those $20 scales are pretty darned accurate. I think mine is +- 1 mg or so. Having the ability to alter each nutrient would be the easiest way to test toxicities/deficiencies. I'm sure you could get the chemicals off Amazon stores fairly cheaply. I've thought about doing it before just for fun. Maybe one day.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm nice link. I might try that mix out when I start trying to see some of the other deficiencies like zinc/etc.

I was able to buy CSM without B from nilocg, so I'll use that for my boron tests.

It would be great if you also did some tests. Double checking is always ideal. Macro nutrients are the easiest and quickest to do. You can also get a CO2 manifold to split one tank to feed many test tanks if you want to use CO2.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 10:05 PM
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Hmm nice link. I might try that mix out when I start trying to see some of the other deficiencies like zinc/etc.

I was able to buy CSM without B from nilocg, so I'll use that for my boron tests.

It would be great if you also did some tests. Double checking is always ideal. Macro nutrients are the easiest and quickest to do. You can also get a CO2 manifold to split one tank to feed many test tanks if you want to use CO2.
Yes, that link seems to be a very close approximation to CSM+B. The boron seems high though, 0.8% versus 0.04% in CSM+B analysis. There are quite a few good threads about DIY traces there.

I would love to get a few 2-5 gallon tanks and play. CO2 wouldn't be an option now though. I moved a few months ago and moved my high tech tank to my step father's house. He really enjoyed it. So, he traded me his fully loaded 240 gallon for it as well as tons of driftwood. Just need to get CO2 setup and rebuild a hood. His was a canopy falling apart but nice ballasts.

I'll keep my eye open for a few small tanks. However, without CO2 the testing would presumably take longer.

If your into buying all the components at once check out BFG supply. They carry about anything you may need in small or large quantities. I'm sure there are plenty of others. It's basically hydroponic sources.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-20-2014, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like a good trade with your dad.

Yes the deficiencies would just take longer without CO2, and high lights.

Another good site you have there I might go with them when I buy the ferts or maybe [Ebay Link Removed] They generally tend to have a large variety of chemicals for sale.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 11:17 PM
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Zapins so how is this test working for you? i have a csm without boron and i would love to try something similar.

DIY Trace/Micro/Macro Recipe
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 03:03 AM Thread Starter
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I bought the CSM from a member on this site, but I haven't set up any tests yet. I'll probably do it over the next few months. My time will be limited for a while, but I'll see what I can do.
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