Need some dosing help?? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Need some dosing help??

Some tank info before questions:
25gal
High light [email protected] now for 6hr
Co2 35ish ppm
Full ei for 20-40gal tank..

Pics will b at bottom of post in same order as im asking about the plants.

Plants:
#1 is either rotala indica or rotundifolia (ive heard the name has been changed idk)

Curling leaves after lughts out.. grows an inch a day.. pearls like crazy.. not sure if the curling is maybe a ca deficiency or what..

#2 cambomba green. Only been in tank about a week so still converting to tank params. First new shoots look a lot bigger in diameter than old growth.. to me it looks well. No questions really.

#3 myrio red. I bought from lfs. No ferts but fish waste. Low light. No co2. Looked terrible but I figured id give it a shot..

Regretting this one after cleaning the dead needles up for a week now.. its not red. Its barely growing?? Looks terrible. Im thinking maybe iron... ill touch back because next plant I think may b iron related also.

#4 alternanthera reinecki I believe.
I placed some small icecubes under it that I made with trace+npk and thay has helped growth but still slow and gsa is bad on this plant. I trim off infected leaves but more show up. Really my only algae problem right now.

Is the slow growth because the plant is slow growth or maybe an iron deficiency again (red plants, idk).

I tried to throw some stems around it to see if less lught would help but I cant tell yet.. I also have floaters in the mail (red root and amazon frogbit) gonna try to coral them over this plant to see if it likes less light.


Now I dose ei exactly as recommended right now and water params r about perfect.. except I dont have a test kit for f
Iron/fe yet.. so I havent been dosing anymore that what is in csm+b..

I ordered iron chelate 10% from nilocg but am unsure how to dose because I dont want evap issues..

Can I mix it with my csm+b mix and dose that way or should I mix it seperate or just dry dose it??? And how much extra??

Sorry for long post and heres the pics. I only had my white channel at 15% so typically plants r getting a lot more light than pics show..

1st rotala rontundifolia
2nd camomba green
3rd myrio red
4th alternanthera reinecki

Thanks for any help and if u see anything else that could cause issues just let me know. Im open to all suggestions.

Jeff
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 06:20 PM
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When did you start dosing? If longer than a month what do you dose? Water changes? What's your GH?
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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When did you start dosing? If longer than a month what do you dose? Water changes? What's your GH?
I pulled all my plants out and started fresh about 2 months ago. It was ei before and ei still. I was dosing less right after the restart but everytime I test ive been low so I just made it back to full ei and water params r good to me besides my high gh.

Dosing schedule:

Sun:
before co2 comes on 50% wc tap w/prime
1/2tsp gh booster
1/4tsp kno3
1/16 tsp kh2po4
1/32 tsp csm+b
Mon:
1/32 tsp csm+b
Tues:
1/4tsp kno3
1/16 tsp kh2po4
1/32 tsp csm+b
Weds:
1/32 tsp csm+b
Thurs:
1/4tsp kno3
1/16 tsp kh2po4
1/32 tsp csm+b
Fri: 1/32tsp csm+b
Sat:
No dosing

Tank water
0 ammonia, nitrites
30 ppm nitrates
Gh 21 high. bad tap. cant afford ro/di
Kh 17
Tds: 400 ish
Ph during co2 6.4
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 07:36 PM
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Don't know how much it will affect the plants but what substrate are you using?

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Don't know how much it will affect the plants but what substrate are you using?
Floramax with playsand
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 07:45 PM
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Hmmm. Exactly what lights do you have and how sure are you about your co2 levels. Are you using a drop checker or testing your pH?

~Sam

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm. Exactly what lights do you have and how sure are you about your co2 levels. Are you using a drop checker or testing your pH?
96w of diy led controlled by typhon board. I have hyper violets, deep red, neutral white, cool white, and cool blue leds. I can adjust the spectrum but I think its pretty good right now. Whites are set at 70% or 700ma and colors are set at 40% or 400ma.

I have a par meter from hoppi I use to set par and adjust spectrum to what I think it should be. I could add leds of other colors, theres room in the system but I dont really want to...



As for the co2 I have used kh/gh charts and I also have a drop checker that I have been experimenting with. I found the calculator to make kh solutions and I started trying them out. First I made one that was 4dkh to see if it would read the same as the 4dkh solution I bought and it did. Always green. So now ive tested up to 6dkh solution which should turn green at 40ppm. Still always green so idk about those drop checkers..

I inject thru an inline diffuser. Diy regulator and bubble counter. About 3bps. Slight surface agitation from diy spraybar a rena xp2 cannister and xp1 pump. Had both and built a hybrid for more biomedia but less flow.

mostly I just monitor fish. Soon as I see distress I back it off a little.

Heres some pics of my lights at their set levels. And my reg just in case.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 08:13 PM
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Well your dosing sounds ok because that's about what I add to my 29 and it has always yielded excellent results. I'm no expert on lighting but I have a feeling that might be your problem because your co2 and ferts seem ok. The only thing I can't say for sure is your lighting. Hopefully a lighting expert will chime in

~Sam

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Well your dosing sounds ok because that's about what I add to my 29 and it has always yielded excellent results. I'm no expert on lighting but I have a feeling that might be your problem because your co2 and ferts seem ok. The only thing I can't say for sure is your lighting. Hopefully a lighting expert will chime in
Yeah im wondering if its lights too. I had a 4x24w t5ho odyssea fixture over it before which had a little less par than Im running now but my growth is much faster with my leds... even with similar par.. idk if maybe I have the colors turned down too low or maybe they are too high.. the spectrum part im not so sure about...
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 11:12 PM
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Yeah im wondering if its lights too. I had a 4x24w t5ho odyssea fixture over it before which had a little less par than Im running now but my growth is much faster with my leds... even with similar par.. idk if maybe I have the colors turned down too low or maybe they are too high.. the spectrum part im not so sure about...
Yeah I don't know anything about being able to determine spectrum either. If your lighting is in fact the problem, it probably has to do more with the wrong spectrum than anything else. I Feel like if the spectrum was correct, those plants would be growing out of your tank.

~Sam

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah I don't know anything about being able to determine spectrum either. If your lighting is in fact the problem, it probably has to do more with the wrong spectrum than anything else. I Feel like if the spectrum was correct, those plants would be growing out of your tank.
Yeah idk. I wouldn't think it could b far off tho...but...idk again..

Where did zorfox go? Hoppy is the light expert so maybe he will drop some knowledge on me if he sees the thread.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 01:37 PM
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Your dosing seems fine. Certainly no deficiencies using that regime. In fact, with that amount of plants you could even reduce dosing but it will make no difference. I think you can safely skip the GH booster with a GH that high. As far as adding iron to Plantex you can add 3 parts Plantex to one part DTPA iron. You can leave them separate for flexibility or mix them, whatever floats your boat.

I'm not well versed in lighting. However, a PAR reading of 85 at the substrate is no doubt sufficient lol.

As far as your CO2 is concerned, how did you adjust it initially? Did you work upwards slowly until you saw signs of stress? Too many people assume a specific PPM based on KH/PH or drop checkers. The truth is, you will never know what the maximum is until you see changes in inhabitants behavior. Then you can see what the PH is and lower levels to a manageable point.

So where are we at? Lighting is adequate. Nutrients are non-limiting and CO2...well, maybe okay?

If everything you say is accurate you should have better results. I would certainly recheck everything. One thing I am curious about. Do you add that API aquarium salt to the tank? If so that may be your issue.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
As far as your CO2 is concerned, how did you adjust it initially? Did you work upwards slowly until you saw signs of stress? Too many people assume a specific PPM based on KH/PH or drop checkers. The truth is, you will never know what the maximum is until you see changes in inhabitants behavior. Then you can see what the PH is and lower levels to a manageable point.

So where are we at? Lighting is adequate. Nutrients are non-limiting and CO2...well, maybe okay?

If everything you say is accurate you should have better results. I would certainly recheck everything. One thing I am curious about. Do you add that API aquarium salt to the tank? If so that may be your issue.
I adjusted co2 by continually upping every few days. Once I see fish distress I back off.. ie:gaspin, inactivity, and hoving at surface...

My drop checker is always green and my ph drops from like 7.8 to 6.4 by end of photoperiod.

No ive had that aquarium salt for years. I bought a platy recently that had some nipped fins so I put a tbsp of that salt in. I only use it for nipped fins and scale issues. So very seldom..

Do u think the already high gh is causing slow growth?
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 02:53 PM
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I doubt the GH is having this much impact. If that's the amount of growth you've had in two months something is wrong. Even if CO2 was not optimal I would expect to see more growth than this in two months.

You may try doing several large water changes over the next few weeks. Resetting the water chemistry may help, it certainly can't hurt. I would double check what you have done thus far. For example, I've dosed KH2PO4 thinking it was KNO3 and couldn't figure out why my plants were consuming nitrates so fast. We are all human. I feel like I am missing the obvious but can't see it lol
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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I doubt the GH is having this much impact. If that's the amount of growth you've had in two months something is wrong. Even if CO2 was not optimal I would expect to see more growth than this in two months.

You may try doing several large water changes over the next few weeks. Resetting the water chemistry may help, it certainly can't hurt. I would double check what you have done thus far. For example, I've dosed KH2PO4 thinking it was KNO3 and couldn't figure out why my plants were consuming nitrates so fast. We are all human. I feel like I am missing the obvious but can't see it lol
Ok I double checked my jars to see if I filled them wrong. They are good. And I doubt I dosed wrong because I label the little jar things. I also have phosphate test kit. I only check it usually before water change.. usually a little heavy in that(1-5ppm).


I also have a ca test kit too.. I used to not dose gh booster because my levels were high and I think my ca:mg ratio was correct. I may be wrong but I think it was 4:1- ca:mg. When I moved like two months ago I started dosing it all again but my water is just as hard here. Ill go check my ca level and calculate the mg. Ill figure out that ratio. Mayne ill stop doseing the gh booster again.

If I dont dose gh booster, should I substitute anything in??
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