Could someone help me with dosing fetz in a low tech tank? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Could someone help me with dosing fetz in a low tech tank?

I have paranoid schizophrenia and I have problems comprehending stuff. I have to read things over and over and sometimes I still don't get it. This whole planted aquarium thing has been baby steps for me. I've been keeping fish for 20 years but I'm finding plants difficult. I've been able to keep Anubias to a degree but I'm having trouble keeping other plants.

I have a 30 gallon tank with a current led + fixture. I'm using eco complete for a substrate. I have quite a few plants in it but it's not fully loaded. I have crypts anubias bolbitis and a red tiger lotus. I added some giant duckweed for more plant mass.

I recently purchased the full line of seachem fertz. I have nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, iron, trace, comprehensive and excel.

I would like to start using fertz for better growth. I based my tank off of this guide here.

http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/...ed-tank-guide/

It's says that I can dose low amounts of fetz once a week and not have to do water changes which is what I'm aiming for. I'm having a hard time figuring out how much of what to dose?

I want to keep the tank as low maintenance as possible.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 10:03 AM
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First any liquid fert list will eat you out of house and home if the tank is a 30g for the amount of them you will use.
It's not at all extreme in a 30 but after you buy them over and over in one year you will understand.
Second with NO water changes you can't have much hope of having a successful tank.
One water change per week IS minimum maintenance.
When I have an infection I don't ask the doctor for something to control it.
When I get crab grass or ants in my yard I don't go to Loew's and ask for something to control it.
I ask what it takes to remove these and learn how to do that.
This works for any problem.
http://barrreport.com/

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 12:45 PM
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Raymond is giving you advice and sending you to a web site dedicated to high tech tanks. Yes it works well for High tech, but thats not what you say you have. Low tech equals little or seldom doing water changes.


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Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
First any liquid fert list will eat you out of house and home if the tank is a 30g for the amount of them you will use.
It's not at all extreme in a 30 but after you buy them over and over in one year you will understand.
Second with NO water changes you can't have much hope of having a successful tank.
One water change per week IS minimum maintenance.
When I have an infection I don't ask the doctor for something to control it.
When I get crab grass or ants in my yard I don't go to Loew's and ask for something to control it.
I ask what it takes to remove these and learn how to do that.
This works for any problem.
http://barrreport.com/
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 01:37 PM
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The method you listed is a non-CO2 method. Using the Excel from your list is considered a CO2 type method. For low tech tanks using Excel 1/4 - 1/3 EI dose seems about right. Using Excel will improve plant growth over non CO2 methods. However, water changes are needed. You can get away with weekly dosing and monthly water changes (I actually prefer more water changes but hey, you wanted a minimal effort setup ). The doses listed below are based on weekly dosing and a 50% water change once a month.

Nitrogen - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Phosphorus - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Potassium - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Comprehensive - 1 cap full (5ml)
Excel - 3ml every day or every other day
Optional Iron - 2ml every other day or once mid week

Additionally, The Barrreport.com is not a site dedicated to high tech setups. The non CO2 method you listed is based (copied) from that site, Non CO2 methods.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrill View Post
Raymond is giving you advice and sending you to a web site dedicated to high tech tanks. Yes it works well for High tech, but thats not what you say you have. Low tech equals little or seldom doing water changes.
It might be even more thoughtful if when someone says your source is for high tech, that they might look at it and see if they are making
an incorrect statement first. Less chance of them looking bad that way.
If you will look at the list...there is a section for non-CO2 tanks. The last time I checked...non-CO2 was/is low tech. Long as you don't have high lights.
Zorfox has good info. I just think that IF your tank has anything like a stocking level of more than 80% then once a
month is cutting it a bit too close for me with water changes. Too much chance of a buildup of toxic chemicals. I didn't have any way to calculate the amounts in liquids. I also thank Zorfox for doing it for you as you do have them and even if you decide to
change to dry ferts later you will likely use up the liquids first as I am/w Flourish Comprehensive that I had before I
went to the dry ferts. No sense in wasting them so I won't get the Micro's in dry till I run out of the Flourish C.
I use Excel now but hope to eliminate it later after my plants have filled out the tank some more.
What is really funny(to me at least) is that most who have injected CO2 say that Excel doesn't qualify as CO2. Please spare me
from that debate. I use it because my plants seem fuller than when I didn't. Just better all around in general.
Don't notice any change in the growth rate though. We'll see when I decide to stop it.
There is a section on the fert calculator which gives "EI low light /weekly" doses. I use less than those, but basicly the same
list for ferts as the regular EI.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
It might be even more thoughtful if when someone says your source is for high tech, that they might look at it and see if they are making an incorrect statement first. Less chance of them looking bad that way.
Nothing wrong with giving an opinion. He may or have may not have known about the low tech discussions. If not he just learned something which is never a bad thing. Learning is why I am here after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
What is really funny(to me at least) is that most who have injected CO2 say that Excel doesn't qualify as CO2. Please spare me
from that debate.
No debate here. CO2 injection can increase growth rates up to ten times higher than Excel. Excel does improve growth and health. Just not nearly as much. Never the less it is a form of CO2.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
There is a section on the fert calculator which gives "EI low light /weekly" doses. I use less than those, but basicly the same
list for ferts as the regular EI.
You use less because those are based on monthly water changes. This makes a huge difference in nutrient ranges. Run the EI low light numbers using 50% water change per week in Wet's calculator. It works out that way. Monthly not so much...

I think it's more important to test nutrient levels with infrequent water changes. After awhile you will see the tank stabilize and adjust doses accordingly.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 04:17 PM
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Zorfox,
Thank you for all that really. I did sound a bit ticked when I read it myself. And I didn't notice till you said it that the
EI low light etc is designed for monthly water changes either(and I'm sure they mentioned it) so now who isn't reading
first before talking ? Even so I do weekly water changes AND reduce that dose level for my ten G tank to insure that
my minimal water changes are effective enough. At 20% it may not all together be at my old stocking rate which I'm
gradually reducing. Live beareres do get ahead of you if you not keeping up/w them, Least Killi fish even.
And the RCS do have a bio-load in spite of others concept that it is minimal. They breed and add up till it's noticable,
but the BB have multiplied at the same time. Killed about 60% of them one time early on by taking out about 20%
of the bio-media to clean it and got distracted and forgot to put it back. Learned the hard way that they too have a bio-load.
Thanks once again for your reply to his question and added help.
I don't know if they noticed it but if you take the end results(where you see "what the results of my doses are") and add up
the numbers for "your target ppm" in your list, it actually comes out higher when you add all your fert components.
So I reduced the 1/4 to 1/16th to bring it down on both KNO3 and K2SO4 so that when those two K's combined it
wouldn't go over the target level total. Yea I know, way too picky but trying to get just some of, but every useful part of
these ferts as I can. Will adjust if/when deficiencies show up. Had nothing but the Flourish comprehensive before these.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
The method you listed is a non-CO2 method. Using the Excel from your list is considered a CO2 type method. For low tech tanks using Excel 1/4 - 1/3 EI dose seems about right. Using Excel will improve plant growth over non CO2 methods. However, water changes are needed. You can get away with weekly dosing and monthly water changes (I actually prefer more water changes but hey, you wanted a minimal effort setup ). The doses listed below are based on weekly dosing and a 50% water change once a month.

Nitrogen - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Phosphorus - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Potassium - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Comprehensive - 1 cap full (5ml)
Excel - 3ml every day or every other day
Optional Iron - 2ml every other day or once mid week

Additionally, The Barrreport.com is not a site dedicated to high tech setups. The non CO2 method you listed is based (copied) from that site, Non CO2 methods.
Thanks for breaking it down for me. I read the Barreport non co2 method 3 times and I'm still having a hard time grasping it. It gets overwhelming trying to figure out. Now that I have a base level to start from I can work on it from here.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantsome View Post
Thanks for breaking it down for me. I read the Barreport non co2 method 3 times and I'm still having a hard time grasping it. It gets overwhelming trying to figure out. Now that I have a base level to start from I can work on it from here.
Glad to hear that. Any problems or questions feel free to PM me. I'll do what I can to help.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-10-2014, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
Glad to hear that. Any problems or questions feel free to PM me. I'll do what I can to help.
Ok I'll probably have some questions in the next day or 2. I'm going to study the crap out of the Barreport.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantsome View Post
I have paranoid schizophrenia and I have problems comprehending stuff. I have to read things over and over and sometimes I still don't get it. This whole planted aquarium thing has been baby steps for me. I've been keeping fish for 20 years but I'm finding plants difficult. I've been able to keep Anubias to a degree but I'm having trouble keeping other plants.

I have a 30 gallon tank with a current led + fixture. I'm using eco complete for a substrate. I have quite a few plants in it but it's not fully loaded. I have crypts anubias bolbitis and a red tiger lotus. I added some giant duckweed for more plant mass.

I recently purchased the full line of seachem fertz. I have nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, iron, trace, comprehensive and excel.

I would like to start using fertz for better growth. I based my tank off of this guide here.

http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/...ed-tank-guide/

It's says that I can dose low amounts of fetz once a week and not have to do water changes which is what I'm aiming for. I'm having a hard time figuring out how much of what to dose?

I want to keep the tank as low maintenance as possible.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Please accept my apology as I should have stated this. The section named "Non CO2 method" was what I should have said to look at but there are also other sections such as "just starting a planted tank" which can be helpful. But know that lots of the info on there is for high tech
which means CO2 type tanks like the reply below my first one said.
http://www.barrreport.com/forumdispl...on-CO2-Methods
Try to read the Walstad post near the bottom also.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-16-2014, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
The method you listed is a non-CO2 method. Using the Excel from your list is considered a CO2 type method. For low tech tanks using Excel 1/4 - 1/3 EI dose seems about right. Using Excel will improve plant growth over non CO2 methods. However, water changes are needed. You can get away with weekly dosing and monthly water changes (I actually prefer more water changes but hey, you wanted a minimal effort setup ). The doses listed below are based on weekly dosing and a 50% water change once a month.

Nitrogen - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Phosphorus - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Potassium - 1 cap full (5 ml)
Comprehensive - 1 cap full (5ml)
Excel - 3ml every day or every other day
Optional Iron - 2ml every other day or once mid week

Additionally, The Barrreport.com is not a site dedicated to high tech setups. The non CO2 method you listed is based (copied) from that site, Non CO2 methods.
Not to hijack someone else's thread but this is great information. If not using Excel would you cut back on fertilizer's even further? If so by how much?
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-16-2014, 01:30 PM
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Not to hijack someone else's thread but this is great information. If not using Excel would you cut back on fertilizer's even further? If so by how much?
Yes, without any form of CO2 nutrient uptake will be lower. The link to the Barrreport for Non CO2 methods explains this in much more detail including dosage amounts. However, regardless of the type of tank, I think supplying non-limiting nutrients is the way to go. Doing that in a tank without any water changes is more difficult IMO. If you want to understand more about what non limiting nutrients are and manage them this post may help, it certainly can't hurt lol.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-16-2014, 03:06 PM
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It took me a while but I found it. This may help. I don't know if it has all your ferts on it but might have some of them.

http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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