Complete list of ferts??? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-22-2013, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 410
Complete list of ferts???

Does this look like a 100% complete list of chems for a med light, heavy planted tank? Any and All comments are welcomed. Also please help me fill in the blanks...
Keep in mind I would like to buy all chems in dry form, but will dose in liquid form seperatly in order to have more controll over dosing.

Since I am in Canada, I would rather not get into [KNO3] the best sub will do just fine.

Possably will use:

Magnesium Nitrate Mg(NO3)2
Contains 11% Nitrate Nitrogen and 13% Magnesium.

Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
Magnesium Sulfate = epsom salt (MgSO4.7H2O)
Plantex CSM + B
Chelted Iron [Fe] 13.2%
Sodium bicarbonate = [NaHCO3] Baking Soda



Thanks in advance.

Last edited by boxboy; 12-23-2013 at 01:37 PM. Reason: corrections
boxboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-22-2013, 01:30 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
The KH2PO4 should provide all the phosphorus you need so the elemental form wouldn't be needed imo. I would also get some iron rather than using Plantex to supply all of it. Otherwise, it looks good to me.

btw Magnesium Sulfate is epsom salt (MgSO4.7H2O) not Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4)
Zorfox is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-22-2013, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 410
Thanks Zorfox, I updated the list. Im simply trying to make sure I have ALL elements avalable seperatly so I can adjust dosing when needed.
boxboy is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-22-2013, 02:59 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Seattle_Aquarist's Avatar
 
PTrader: (65/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,593
Hi boxboy,

Adding CaNO3 as your source for nitrogen may significantly increase your water hardness (dKH & dGH).

Baking Soda (also known as Sodium bicarbonate) is NaHCO3; CaCO3 is calcium carbonate and will also increase your dKH and dGH.

CSM (+B added by seller) contains 7.0% iron

Roy_________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

75 Gallon, 2X55W AH Supply CF 8800K, 1X 59W Fluval Plant (3.0); 45 Gallon Tall, 1X 46W Fluval Plant (3.0); 30 Gallon Long; Fluval F&P 2.0; 20 Gallon, 1X26W AH Supply LED; all with CO2 & (Calcined) Montmorillonite Clay
Seattle_Aquarist is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-22-2013, 04:07 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
There are several forms of Fe (iron). The two main chelated forms are EDTA and DTPA. The use of one or the other is influenced by PH. Plantex already contains the EDTA form. Augmenting this with DTPA will provide the best of both worlds essentially. So I would use DTPA iron in addition to the Plantex. No need to increase the dosage of all the micronutrients just for iron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post

Adding CaNO3 as your source for nitrogen may significantly increase your water hardness (dKH & dGH).
Assuming it's Ca(NO3)2.4H2O, the rise in GH is quite small and shouldn't have any negative impact on fauna, certainly not flora. If you add enough to raise NO3 to 7.5ppm, this will raise the GH by 0.34 degrees or 2.43ppm of Ca.
Zorfox is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 410
Well my water is already pretty hard, I live in a city built on limestone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
There are several forms of Fe (iron). The two main chelated forms are EDTA and DTPA. The use of one or the other is influenced by PH. Plantex already contains the EDTA form. Augmenting this with DTPA will provide the best of both worlds essentially. So I would use DTPA iron in addition to the Plantex. No need to increase the dosage of all the micronutrients just for iron.



Assuming it's Ca(NO3)2.4H2O, the rise in GH is quite small and shouldn't have any negative impact on fauna, certainly not flora. If you add enough to raise NO3 to 7.5ppm, this will raise the GH by 0.34 degrees or 2.43ppm of Ca.
So DTPA iron in addition to the Plantex is all the micros I need?
I really dont want nor need GH to rise, in fact I need to lower it a little.

Forgive me, Im a freaking dosing newb.
My water is hard already and PH is never below 7-8 on its own.
My plants show signs of needing Potassium.

The goal seems simple enough? Buy dry ferts, dose as liquid form.
If all ferts are seperate, then I can increase or decrease any givin fert at one time...
I hope that I am not dreaming here??

Last edited by Darkblade48; 12-23-2013 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
boxboy is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 01:33 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
So DTPA iron in addition to the Plantex is all the micros I need?
I really dont want nor need GH to rise, in fact I need to lower it a little.
Yes. Plantex is all the micro nutrients you will need. Under various circumstances higher iron levels are desired. Rather than increasing all the other micro nutrients by dosing more Plantex in an attempt to raise iron, we simply augment Plantex with additional iron. In your case, high PH, DTPA is the most desirable. It will remain bio-active far longer than any other chelate, 36-48 hours. Where other non chelated forms exist in a bio-active form for mere hours or less.

Using Calcium nitrate will raise your GH. There is no way around that. I understand your GH may be high. I personally cannot think of a situation where the marginal increase would be deleterious. Remember we are talking about a 0.3 degree rise in GH using a full EI dose. That's not much at all. In fact, many ignore their GH and dose enough GH booster to raise their GH 1-2 degrees at water change without problems. If you don't want to raise GH at all you will need to use another form of Nitrogen. There is no way around that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post

The goal seems simple enough? Buy dry ferts, dose as liquid form.

If all ferts are seperate, then I can increase or decrease any givin fert at one time...

I hope that I am not dreaming here??
No you're not dreaming. That's why you see so many people advise to keep nutrients separate, for versatility.
Zorfox is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 01:45 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 329
You seem to be well on your way now, heres a link for dry ferts i stumbled upon looking for DTPA Iron, like you i have hard water. Oh and they sell KNO3 as well.

http://www.canadianaquatics.com/equipment/equipment.htm

And this guy is on the other side of our country but no DTPA Iron.

http://theplantguy.org


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by shambhalove.; 12-23-2013 at 03:11 AM. Reason: ..
shambhalove. is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 410
Zorfox, Plantex CSM + B + chelated Iron source = Full Micro list basicly.
If I need another source of Nitrogen do you have a better source for my need?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shambhalove. View Post
You seem to be well on your way now, heres a link for dry ferts i stumbled upon looking for DTPA Iron, like you i have hard water. Oh and they sell KNO3 as well.

http:// http://www.canadianaquatics.com/equipment/equipment.htm

And this guy is on the other side of our country but no DTPA Iron.

http://theplantguy.org
First link is dead Second link I have visited before, but not sure what excatly which of his products I can use.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 12-23-2013 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
boxboy is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 02:21 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
Zorfox, Plantex CSM + B + chelated Iron source = Full Micro list basicly.
Yup
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
If I need another source of Nitrogen do you have a better source for my need?
KNO3 and Ca(NO3) are the only two I am aware of that won't increase ammonia levels. If you are dead set on not increasing GH you can order KNO3 from this website. They will ship anywhere but I'm not an international attorney so do so at your own risk.
Zorfox is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 03:13 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
Zorfox, Plantex CSM + B + chelated Iron source = Full Micro list basicly.
First link is dead Second link I have visited before, but not sure what excatly which of his products I can use.
Sorry, link should work now.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
shambhalove. is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 410
What are your thought on the EI dosing?
what about Mag Nitrate for the main souce?

Magnesium Nitrate Mg(NO3)2
Contains 11% Nitrate Nitrogen and 13% Magnesium.


EI Combo
3 portions of KNO3
1 portion of KH2P04
1 portion of Micronutrients
boxboy is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 03:37 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zorfox's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
What are your thought on the EI dosing?
Is there anything else? Yes, I prefer EI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
what about Mag Nitrate for the main souce?
You'll have the same issue with GH. Magnesium is the other half of the GH value, Ca+Mg. In fact, Mg(NO3) and Ca(NO3) will raise the GH the same amount. Again, I still don't see this causing any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxboy View Post
EI Combo
3 portions of KNO3
1 portion of KH2P04
1 portion of Micronutrients
plus
1 portion DTPA iron
1 portion K2SO4

If you cannot use KNO3 then you will need to add potassium through K2SO4. Most of the K+ comes from KNO3.
Zorfox is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2013, 06:46 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Jack Gilvey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jersey, USA
Posts: 435
Here's useful info on Plantex + iron:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...20&postcount=9

I mix DTPA in with my CSM+B as Zorfox suggests, and dose a little Fe Gluconate daily.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan
Jack Gilvey is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post
Here's useful info on Plantex + iron:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...20&postcount=9

I mix DTPA in with my CSM+B as Zorfox suggests, and dose a little Fe Gluconate daily.
Thanks jAck
boxboy is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome