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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Know its old, but need help.

Im trying to develop a dosing schedule. Im just thinking too much probably.
Anyways.
The Tank SPecs are:
180g moderate/heavy planted
50# co2 w/ ph controller
484w cf mix of 6700k and 10000k(12hrs/day)
kh-4
gh-8
ph-6.5-6.9
nitrate-0
nitrite-0
I have greg watson ferts and excel and Im dosing both daily each(15ml). the ferts include: KNO3, K2SO4, magnesium sulphate, and plantex CSM+B. I mixed it like this:

1-tbsp csm+b
1-tbsp magnesium sulphate
2-tbsp K2SO4
1-tbsp KN03
oh, yeah im gonna try using fleet for P.

any help greatly appreciated. The tank just doesnt seem to be growing as im used to with previous tanks
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 01:09 AM
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In how much water did you mix the fertilizers?


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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 01:18 AM Thread Starter
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In how much water did you mix the fertilizers?
Oh yeah, sorry. 500ml
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Hello? Someones gotta be able to help.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 01:13 PM
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Why are you mixing the powder into solutions and not simply dry dosing? with a tank as large as that you will just have to shoot from the hip until you can hit a bullseye.

I can't help with solutions because I don't use them not even on a 5g tank, I dose dry.
Maybe someone with some experience and success with that will chime up.

Seems like an awful lot of light for a tank that large and for 12 hrs you may run into trouble rather fast.

Personally I would dose it dry and back the light to no more than 10 hrs.

180g I would dose dry and start with these amounts.

+/- 1 1/2Tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/3Tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/2Tsp K2S04 once a week
+/- 30ml Trace 3x a week
This is a starting point on the ferts and with the amount of light you are using will probably need to be increased, note the +/-.

I would also learn to master the C02, the Excel bill will get outrageous on a tank that size, although Excel is fine stuff, and a great addition to any tank even when used in conjuction with gas.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/wa...-regimes_.html

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WfxXx View Post
Why are you mixing the powder into solutions and not simply dry dosing? with a tank as large as that you will just have to shoot from the hip until you can hit a bullseye.

I can't help with solutions because I don't use them not even on a 5g tank, I dose dry.
Maybe someone with some experience and success with that will chime up.

Seems like an awful lot of light for a tank that large and for 12 hrs you may run into trouble rather fast.

Personally I would dose it dry and back the light to no more than 10 hrs.

180g I would dose dry and start with these amounts.

+/- 1 1/2Tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/3Tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/2Tsp K2S04 once a week
+/- 30ml Trace 3x a week
This is a starting point on the ferts and with the amount of light you are using will probably need to be increased, note the +/-.

I would also learn to master the C02, the Excel bill will get outrageous on a tank that size, although Excel is fine stuff, and a great addition to any tank even when used in conjuction with gas.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/wa...-regimes_.html
Thanx for info. I would dose dry, but Im trying to get as automated as possible. I have a seasonal job every year that takes me away from home 17-20hrs a day for five months, and the tank always suffers. Ill be using 2 peristaltic(sp?) pumps. So i would need them to be in liquid form.
And as for the light setup, it was to my understanding that 3-4wpg was the number to shoot for. The tank is 24" tall also. With 484w thats 2.68 wpg.
Well, if im going in the wrong direction, someone stop me please!
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 02:29 PM
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The wpg rule breaks down on small (need more light) and large (need less light) tanks.

And liquid based dosing on a tank that size is going to be problematic.

15 ml of Excel on a tank that size is like pissing on a house fire. Get a pressurized CO2 system.

You are going to have to adjust your dosing to get the needed amounts of ferts into the tank. And cut back the light by about half.

Say you want to get to 20 ppm of nitrates.

You mix 4 teaspoons of KNO3 in 500 ml of water. Now dump the whole 500 ml of water into the tank. You just got 20 ppm.

Your current dosing is adding 0.15 ppm of nitrates.

It would take you 1 minute to dose dry.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg View Post
The wpg rule breaks down on small (need more light) and large (need less light) tanks.

And liquid based dosing on a tank that size is going to be problematic.

15 ml of Excel on a tank that size is like pissing on a house fire. Get a pressurized CO2 system.

You are going to have to adjust your dosing to get the needed amounts of ferts into the tank. And cut back the light by about half.

Say you want to get to 20 ppm of nitrates.

You mix 4 teaspoons of KNO3 in 500 ml of water. Now dump the whole 500 ml of water into the tank. You just got 20 ppm.

Your current dosing is adding 0.15 ppm of nitrates.

It would take you 1 minute to dose dry.
So i need to cut back light. I have press. co2 with controller. Thanx for input.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 04:51 PM
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Waitwaitwait. Rex didn't read your OP, you got CO2, so you are covered there. You got plenty light, but with good CO2 levels there is no problem. For a "moderately planted" tank you could cut the wattage down a bit though, 2wpg should be enough, and better for your energy bill.

Your problem is you are dosing nothing. 15 ml of your solution add basically no nutrients to your tank. This is where I was going with my original question - with a tank that size, you need to dose dry, or mix something like a gallon of solution where you dose a good amount (not 15ml) every day. You can not dissolve enough salt into 15ml of solution to keep your tank happy.

Download this app: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm and play around with it, keeping in mind that you can only dissolve so much salt in a given amount of water, depending on what kind of salt. That's why you see ppl recommending to dose dry.


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest View Post
Waitwaitwait. Rex didn't read your OP, you got CO2, so you are covered there. You got plenty light, but with good CO2 levels there is no problem. For a "moderately planted" tank you could cut the wattage down a bit though, 2wpg should be enough, and better for your energy bill.

Your problem is you are dosing nothing. 15 ml of your solution add basically no nutrients to your tank. This is where I was going with my original question - with a tank that size, you need to dose dry, or mix something like a gallon of solution where you dose a good amount (not 15ml) every day. You can not dissolve enough salt into 15ml of solution to keep your tank happy.

Download this app: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm and play around with it, keeping in mind that you can only dissolve so much salt in a given amount of water, depending on what kind of salt. That's why you see ppl recommending to dose dry.
cool, ill try that out. Thanx again.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 08:30 PM
 
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Couldn't you use an automated feeder to dry dose your tank while you are gone? I'm not positive on this because I've never used an automated feeder, but I would think it's possible since you basically put dry food in it, right? So why not dry ferts??
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-06-2007, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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update on ferts

Well, have to say dry dosing(so far) seems the way to go. With just 2 days of dosing dry ,instead of pre mixed, all the plants just seem brighter and more "awake". I believe this has been the cause of different algae battles, and growth issues. Thanx for the help.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 06:25 PM
 
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Follow up question... I got the handy - dandy dosing calculator and I see how it calculates the 4 teaspoons for a 180 g tank as 20 ppm . ( tool recommends 5ppm nitrate .. whatever ... that s another issue ... ) . So if you dump in the 4 teaspoons, how do you know what to dump in tomorrow / next day / next week.

If these API testkits are as crappy as I've been reading, is there any way to gauge if the nitrates are leveled off at 20ppm throughout the week? Or do you just assume that the plants are burning up entire dose every day?
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 07:38 PM
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Don't dose your traces that have iron in them on the same day that you dose phosphate. They combine to for a compound that plants can't use.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frisbeedog View Post
Follow up question... I got the handy - dandy dosing calculator and I see how it calculates the 4 teaspoons for a 180 g tank as 20 ppm . ( tool recommends 5ppm nitrate .. whatever ... that s another issue ... ) . So if you dump in the 4 teaspoons, how do you know what to dump in tomorrow / next day / next week.

If these API testkits are as crappy as I've been reading, is there any way to gauge if the nitrates are leveled off at 20ppm throughout the week? Or do you just assume that the plants are burning up entire dose every day?
You can NOT assume that your plants use up 20ppm every day. In other words, don't add that much to your tank daily, unless you want to turn it into a brackish setup.

You can make some assumptions. If you know the NO3 levels of your tapwater, you can add a certain amount to that after doing a 50% water change. Let's say 4 tsp bring your tank to 20 ppm, and you found out that your water contains 0 ppm, then you could assume that adding 2 teaspoons would bring the tank to around 20 ppm if your plants didn't use anything, or a bit less if they used up some of the fertilizer.

Stocking levels, cleanliness, filtration and such play a role too, main things that affect nutrient uptake is light, availability of other nutrients (CO2!), and types of plants and plant density. Each tank is different!

Instead of assuming, you could get a test kit, calibrate it somehow so you get better/more reliable results, and learn how much nutrients your tank is using. After a few months of first frequent testing, later once in a while, you can retire the test kit.


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