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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Ph shock?

I just did my normal H2O change and after I got done, most of my fish started showing distress coloration and 1 of my Rummies died. I use a Python, and have been for about the last 10 H2O changes or so. At first I thought maybe it was oxygen depletion as they were all up near the surface and the Python doesn't aerate the H2O. One of my Indian Glass fish has a little white stuff on a fin, so I have been dosing Melafix for about a week, and just started Pimafix for the first time yesterday. I have never had a problem with Melafix in the past. I did just under 50%, and checked temperature before I refilled. The only other change in routine was I used Prime instead of AmQuel. Since there's no way to pre-treat the tap water when using a Python, I put the Prime directly into the tank before I refill. All my other parameters were good- 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 20 Nitrate, 0 degrees GH, 8 degrees KH. I don't normally check these before a H2O change anymore as I'm doing weekly 50% changes. The Ph out of the tap was 7.6, and as my tank is normally about that high when the CO2 is off, I didn't check it. (I know, bad move.) When I checked the tank after I noticed the problem, the Ph was 6.8. It had to be even lower than that to start. Does it make sense that I Ph shocked my fish, rather than it being a problem with any of the products? It's just wierd that some fish didn't react at all, and others did. I did an emergency 6 gallon aerated tap water with Ph and temperature adjusted to the tank, but didn't use any Melafix or Pimafix, just Prime. All of the fish seem to be bouncing back.

Any ideas?

Tommy

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 08:19 PM
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I had similar issues using straight tap in the past and figured it was either the major Temp or O2 change would freak out the fish. To fix this I have since slowed down on the WC and things have improved. I have only used Prime for the last four years so I have no experience with the other declorinators.

I have lost an entire tank of Juvi Sailfin Molly in the past, so I feel your pain.

I understand the principal of the python but have never used them. Is there a way to slow down the transfer? Part of me thinks it needs full tap pressure to work effectively.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 10:18 PM
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How much Prime did you add?

And I doubt it's pH shock. But it could be related to hardness. Did you test tap water hardness vs tank hardness?
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 11:06 PM
 
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I put a capful of Prime in there before using the python to refill too. It is safe even when used 3-5 times normal dose, so that isn't it. I do it like this exclusively with no ill effects. I doubt the pH is the issue either. IMO it is more a hardness or temp issue, not pH or Prime.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 01:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kzr750r1 View Post
I understand the principal of the python but have never used them. Is there a way to slow down the transfer? Part of me thinks it needs full tap pressure to work effectively.
I have used a python for the past 5 years or so. Works like a charm.

I use the tap at full pressure only to get the siphon started. After that, I just let gravity do its thing. I don't do much gravel vacuuming though, so I don't need the extra pressure. However, I think above question refers to the water filling back into the tank. You can run the tap as slow as you want then.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE:

It was most likely the Pimafix.After I did the second 15 gallon aerated tap water change I found an article in an old post at another site. Here's an excerpt of a quote:

"There is a small downside to their use, which shouldn't be cause for general concern, but nonetheless the aquarist should be on the lookout for this situation:

Both Melafix and Pimafix are organic compounds. The bacteria in the tank water (not necessarily the ones on the fish) these products don't kill, sometimes use the Melafix and Pimafix as food! This means that when you add these medications to a tank (especially a tank that has not been maintained well or one that hasn't had regular water changes) there is a small chance that a bacterial bloom will ensue and take up dissolved oxygen. This could mean that you could see, under such circumstances, your fish significantly increase their respiratory rate. The above affect seems to be happening quite often in Italy and API hasn't been able to figure out why, yet.

The fish may seem to be desperately trying to get oxygen and, in effect, they are. This will of course be adding a significant stress factor to an already stressed, sick fish. If the aquarist has any doubt or concern about this, perform an oxygen test before and during the treatment for monitoring purposes."

The guys at Absolutley Fish seem to think that that's most likely what happened, or that the slimy texture of Pimafix may have made oxygen transfer through the gills tough for the fish.

In any event, I only lost 4 small fish, no discus. Using aerated tap H20 treated only with AmQuel for the second batch of changes and upping the circulation saved the tank. I think I'm back to normal now.

Thanks,

Tommy

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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I understand the principal of the python but have never used them. Is there a way to slow down the transfer? Part of me thinks it needs full tap pressure to work effectively.[/QUOTE]


It's actualy slower than using a regular siphon. and I refill VERY slowly so I can monitor temp and Ph.

Tommy

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kzr750r1 View Post
I understand the principal of the python but have never used them. Is there a way to slow down the transfer? Part of me thinks it needs full tap pressure to work effectively.
On the fill, you can just slow down the flow on your sink fixture.
On the drain, the python comes with this ball valve:


Quote:
Originally Posted by LS6 Tommy View Post
The guys at Absolutley Fish seem to think that that's most likely what happened, or that the slimy texture of Pimafix may have made oxygen transfer through the gills tough for the fish.
This is good to know. My wife (then Girlfriend) used to OD Stress Coat in her tank. That explains a lot.

Walter

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