My CO2 Level Is At 147 ppm!! (??) - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
My CO2 Level Is At 147 ppm!! (??)

According to the standard formula 3*KH*(10^(7-ph)), I have 147 ppm of CO2 in my tank.

All tests unless otherwise stated were done with AP test kits, checked for expiration date.

My KH is 19.5 in the tank. 17.5 out of the tap. City water report agrees, KH is 17.5 and is due ONLY to bicarbonates.

(Why my tank KH is higher than the tap water KH is a mystery I've yet to solve).

My tank pH is currently 6.6. This is confirmed by a Red Sea test kit.

I've also tested my water degassed over night, and it has a pH of around 8.2.

If you solve the equation above for pH with an assumed CO2 concentration after equilibrium is acheived of 3 ppm, you get pH of 8.2.

Again this works out because the target pH of 7.2 to get 30 ppm of CO2 yields 36 ppm of CO2 given my KH of 19.5. The CO2 is 33 ppm using the city water report's KH value out of the tap of 17.5.

So I see basically no reason to suspect that my results or calculations are in error. Slightly off? Perhaps, but generally correct.

I put about 3 bpm of CO2 into a 2' 2" diameter "rex style" reactor, and the plants pearl like seltzer after about 6 hours of light.

The funny thing is my fish are all fine and dandy. A few died a couple weeks ago but since then everyone's been happy, active, eating well, etc.

I thought I would share since 147 ppm of CO2 should be killing everything in my tank.. except the plants of course

(Oddly, I still have very tiny tufts of BBA clinging to my driftwood. The claim that increased CO2 will eliminate BBA doesn't seem to hold. As you may have seen from my thread in the 'Algae' forum I also have a few other kinds of algae but it's minor and not really growing. It just won't go away completely.)

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 02:39 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 453
you have alot of light getting a proper balance will be hard, just by adding alot of co2 dont mean your gonna eliminate algae. You didnt say how long your photo period is or what additives your dosing .

its hard to belive your co2 is that high if it is it dont need to be. more isnt always better . You dont need it that high as it will stress your fish . You mentioned some fish died was this because of the co2 level or other reasons.
dschmeh is offline  
post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 12:23 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (26/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alachua, Fl
Posts: 680
There have been a lot of reports lately around various boards (do a search on apc) regarding CO2 levels. I have had my CO2 up around 70-80-ppm with no apparent stress or injury to fish or shrimp. So either our calculations are being skewed somehow, or the fish are not as sensitive as we once thought. I suppose the other possibility is that all our plants produce so much O2 during the photoperiod that the fish have enough dissolved oxygen to get through the high CO2 concentrations?

Bert
Filstar pimp #19
Bert H is offline  
 
post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 02:52 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Hypancistrus's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,032
The kh - ph - co2 chart assumes ABSOLUTELY NO ACIDS in the water WHATSOEVER except for CARBONIC ACID (from CO2). You could have other acids (humins, tannins, phosphate, or other organic acids) in your tank affecting the pH level.

Your test kits may be off as well.
Hypancistrus is offline  
post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypancistrus
The kh - ph - co2 chart assumes ABSOLUTELY NO ACIDS in the water WHATSOEVER except for CARBONIC ACID (from CO2). You could have other acids (humins, tannins, phosphate, or other organic acids) in your tank affecting the pH level.

Your test kits may be off as well.
However, as I indicated in my post, my KH is known from the city water report. The CO2 concentration of water at equilibrium with the surrounding air is roughly 3 ppm, therefore I can calculate the pH of my water at equilibrium. This value is about 8.2. pH of 7.2 would yeild roughly 30 ppm of CO2. All test kits agree with known values so the chart (based on the formula above) is really irrelevant. The degassing method allows one to eliminate the need for a KH test kit, and calculating pH of water that is at equilibrium with the room is simple.

Of course there is also the fact that there are no other acids in my water.

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 07:05 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (28/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,984
Let's get something straight (for my sake): do high co2 levels hurt fish, or LOW PH???
esarkipato is offline  
post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 07:17 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by esarkipato
Let's get something straight (for my sake): do high co2 levels hurt fish, or LOW PH???
High CO2 levels definitely kill fish, and do so within a few hours at most. I did a well designed, carefully controlled, scientifically accurate........oh well---I accidentally added way too much CO2 when I started my CO2 mist sytem and lost a half dozen fish before the day was over. The PH did not drop below 6.2 during that episode, so I don't believe PH will kill fish until you drop to much lower levels.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by esarkipato
Let's get something straight (for my sake): do high co2 levels hurt fish, or LOW PH???
It's definitely the CO2. Something about the relative pressure on the gills between CO2 and oxygen.

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 08:54 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (7/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 120
So your CO2 level is somewhere around 50ppm right? Many have reported fish ok at that level. That is where mine is at and my fish or ok.
But, If I add a new fish without a long acclimation period he is toast. I have the bodies down the drain to prove it. Someone on one of the boards summed it up pretty good. It is like climbling a mountain. You go up gradully and get used to less oxygen. Our fish do the some thing. I think your fish had adjusted to the high CO2 levels.

JR
jrneuzil is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 09:01 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrneuzil
So your CO2 level is somewhere around 50ppm right? Many have reported fish ok at that level. That is where mine is at and my fish or ok.
But, If I add a new fish without a long acclimation period he is toast. I have the bodies down the drain to prove it. Someone on one of the boards summed it up pretty good. It is like climbling a mountain. You go up gradully and get used to less oxygen. Our fish do the some thing. I think your fish had adjusted to the high CO2 levels.

JR
I would agree with this.

Maybe it would be better to increase CO2 more rapidly and watch for fish stress. This could give a better indication of safe CO2 levels and avoid new fish deaths.
Iggy is offline  
post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrneuzil
So your CO2 level is somewhere around 50ppm right? Many have reported fish ok at that level. That is where mine is at and my fish or ok.
But, If I add a new fish without a long acclimation period he is toast. I have the bodies down the drain to prove it. Someone on one of the boards summed it up pretty good. It is like climbling a mountain. You go up gradully and get used to less oxygen. Our fish do the some thing. I think your fish had adjusted to the high CO2 levels.

JR
who are you directing that comment at? it helps if you quote!

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 09:56 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (7/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 120
You Barry, Sorry, I just figured is would be assumed that the reply was directed at the thread author.
My mistake.

JR
jrneuzil is offline  
post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrneuzil
You Barry, Sorry, I just figured is would be assumed that the reply was directed at the thread author.
My mistake.

JR
I ask because I don't get where you come up with 50 ppm of CO2 when the title of my post is "My CO2 Level Is At 147 ppm!! (??)".

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 10:48 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (7/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 120
Barry,
Well if your degassed water is a PH of 8.2 we know that at 7.2 you would be at 30PPM. So if your PH is 6.6 then your somewhere around 50 or so.(I did not do the math to get exact, but no where near the 147PPM

JR
jrneuzil is offline  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-22-2006, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrneuzil
Barry,
Well if your degassed water is a PH of 8.2 we know that at 7.2 you would be at 30PPM. So if your PH is 6.6 then your somewhere around 50 or so.(I did not do the math to get exact, but no where near the 147PPM

JR
CO2=3*KH*(10^(7-ph))
CO2=3*19.5*(10^0.4)
CO2=58.5*2.51
CO2=146.9 ppm

I don't know what math you had in mind but that's how we calculate CO2.

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome