hardness and plants - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-17-2006, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
medicineman's Avatar
 
PTrader: (7/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Jakarta - Indonesia
Posts: 1,461
Send a message via Yahoo to medicineman
hardness and plants

What are the symptoms of soft water plants in hard water and hard water plants in soft water?

I feel that I've been adding excessively too much MgSO4 into my 220 net gallon tank at around 40-50 mg each 50% WC. Frankly I dont know my tap paramaters are and I'm not planning not to have kH & gH test kit should I encounter a good one. I've read that excess Mg does not have too much ill effect to plants compared to Ca. Is this true?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
medicineman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-19-2006, 02:42 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PHalas's Avatar
 
PTrader: (53/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa Fl
Posts: 474
Had some macrandra that virtually melted before my eyes, I believe that is the symptoms of plants that cannot handle hard water.
Hope that answers half your question, hopefully someone else will step up.
PHalas is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-19-2006, 04:23 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
yoink's Avatar
 
PTrader: (69/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,981
I received a piece of tonina belum as an extra with some plants that I bought. It melted in about a week in a kh of 8.5, gh>14. I don't any experience with hard water plants not doing well. Good luck.
yoink is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-19-2006, 04:45 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Hypancistrus's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,032
Some people say the amount of calcium and magnesium ("hard" water elements) has little effect on plants, it is the carbonate hardness (alkalinity or KH) that causes problems. For example, I've read to not even attempt tonina in a KH higher than 3 dKH.
Hypancistrus is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 03:57 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
To quote Tom Barr from APD:

Quote:
I have a GH of 24. If you have higher it might hurt some plants but none
have been hurt per se in any way that I can tell from the high GH.
The whole thing over high GH and KH causing harm to the plants is plain
rubbish.
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plant.../msg00455.html

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 08:07 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Well, in general terms, that is true.

But with specific electic plants, they do better in softer KH's, not GH's near as anyone can tell, many have GH's in the 8-12 range without issue for every plant species.

I melted my Tonia belem with 10ppm of Mg, but the high GH from SeaChem Eq or the GH builder from Greg Watson did not.

Unless you have certain plants your are interested in, it does not pay to bother.

KH is the main issue for the 5-8 species, out of nearly 300 species or more folks commonly keep.

We use to have 30 species tops when I started doing fully planted tanks, that was it. When I kept plant, maybe 10 species where available, Petco etc have more species in better shape today that was the case 20 years ago.

Regards,
Tom Barr



plantbrain is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-21-2006, 09:55 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Hypancistrus's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,032
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain
I melted my Tonia belem with 10ppm of Mg, but the high GH from SeaChem Eq or the GH builder from Greg Watson did not.
And Edward over at APC melted rotala wallichii with that level.

It's important to specify however what you mean by "10 ppm of magnesium." Do you mean 10 ppm as CaCO3? (If so, then actual magnesium levels would be 2.43 ppm.)
Hypancistrus is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-22-2006, 12:58 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
WfxXx's Avatar
 
PTrader: (125/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,037
Why are you adding all that mess to your water if you do not even know what the tap param's are? you probably do not even need it.
Softwater plants in hard water will melt in a matter of days.
Hardwater plant's is softwater? some thrive, some just hang out, a lot of it depend's on you, and your knowledge of plant's/fert's/C02/H20 etc.

If your gH/kH is 3 or more, you probably do not need anything added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medicineman
What are the symptoms of soft water plants in hard water and hard water plants in soft water?

I feel that I've been adding excessively too much MgSO4 into my 220 net gallon tank at around 40-50 mg each 50% WC. Frankly I dont know my tap paramaters are and I'm not planning not to have kH & gH test kit should I encounter a good one. I've read that excess Mg does not have too much ill effect to plants compared to Ca. Is this true?

Craig

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WfxXx is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-22-2006, 02:16 AM
BSS
Guest
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,600
I have a pretty high GH, but I dose Mg because I was having problems with lower leaves constantly turning to mush and falling off. This was most prevalent in L. aromatica and P. stellatus. There are likely other symptoms for lack of Mg, but as Wolf suggests, unless you have a reason, why does it?
BSS is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 05:30 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Forgive my newness to planted tanks, but how exactly do you melt a plant? I've just tested my tap water at 8gh and 3 kh. Am i in for a fun rollercoaster ride or something?
FierDancr is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 11:32 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by FierDancr
Forgive my newness to planted tanks, but how exactly do you melt a plant? I've just tested my tap water at 8gh and 3 kh. Am i in for a fun rollercoaster ride or something?
No the vast majority of plants should do fine in your water. I would suggest getting your city water report to find out just how much calcium and magnesium are in your 8 degrees of hardness.

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 12:27 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 197
hmmm interesting I was just reading this thread and could hard water be also the cause of one specific plant (ludwigia inclinata) melting away? It was experiencing a sort of potassium def. so I attributed it to that... I am dosing mg and calcium but notice that my pearlweed doesn't look too good thats why im also assuming that im not dosing enough calcium... sorry for the semi hijack
kenneth_kpe is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 01:47 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
banderbe's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth_kpe
hmmm interesting I was just reading this thread and could hard water be also the cause of one specific plant (ludwigia inclinata) melting away? It was experiencing a sort of potassium def. so I attributed it to that... I am dosing mg and calcium but notice that my pearlweed doesn't look too good thats why im also assuming that im not dosing enough calcium... sorry for the semi hijack
It could be, that species is reported to prefer soft water.

Regards,
Barry
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


FILSTAR Advocate #39
Member, Minnesota Aquarium Society
29 Gal. - 100% Eco-Complete/2x65W CF/CO2/Filstar XP2/RedSea500/KH:3/GH:5/pH:< 5.5/EI Dosing/WWC 50%
banderbe is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome