How accurate is CO2 chart? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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How accurate is CO2 chart?

I recently started using pressurized co2. I have a bio-wheel on my tank so I thought it would take a lot of co2 to reach the ideal level, but in my eyes, it didn't. I'm not sure how many bpm is coming out (I lost a part of my bubble counter so I can't hook it up), but to me it seems to be on low.

My perameters are at PH 6.8, KH 6, GH 8. Originally, I had hard water at PH 8, KH 10, GH 12.

So according to the Chuck's page, I'm at approx. 28.5ppm of co2. It says that's dangerous for fish, but I don't see the fish behaving as if he's stressed. I realize that recently, people found that the initial thoughts that 15ppm was idealistic amount could actually be raised to 20-30ppm without ill effects on the fish. I don't intend to raise the co2 purposely, but say it was raised above 30ppm to like 33ppm. Would this kill my fish? If not, which is at fault here; the test being incorrect, the chart being incorrect, or the thought amount of co2 to be safe incorrect? How do we know which is right and which is wrong?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 08:32 PM
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Some fish can handle much higher CO2 levels before they suffocate. Also, how quickly the level changes has some effect on it. If you throw fishies from 3ppm to 30ppm they might go belly-up. If on the other hand you get them used to the elevated levels over the course of a few days they won't have too many problems.

Shrimpies can be more sensitive too...

Why is your tap kH 10, and your tank kH 6? Are you using distilled water? If not, how often/much do you change water?

(BTW... once you reach 100 posts you earn yourself 10 free cherry shrimps )


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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 11:08 PM
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In my opinion the KH/PH/CO2 charts are woefully incorrect. Today my CO2 measured at 270 ppm per that chart. No fish stress that I can see, but I am dropping it a bit, just in case. I wish our gurus here would figure out a better method of measuring CO2, something cheap, easy, direct. (I also wish some one would give me about $100,000.)

Hoppy
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 12:31 AM
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Wasserpest...

I must have missed my shipment of 10 free cherry shrimp.


The CO2 chart(s) are pretty accurate since the formula used is accurate. Where the problem lies is that our testing methods are not that accurate. If you use a standard pH test kit you can be up to a half a point off in either direction. The same can be said for most kH test kits.

And you have to know that the addition of any other acids to the tank, from peat or driftwood, will really skew the chart.

I'm curious Hoppy. What are your tank parameters that you get 270 ppm? Because I know that CO2 levels that high will effect fish. And what are your measurement methods?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
Wasserpest...

I must have missed my shipment of 10 free cherry shrimp.
That's pickup, not shipment. And only valid between 100 and 108 posts. Sorry...


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest
Some fish can handle much higher CO2 levels before they suffocate. Also, how quickly the level changes has some effect on it. If you throw fishies from 3ppm to 30ppm they might go belly-up. If on the other hand you get them used to the elevated levels over the course of a few days they won't have too many problems.

Shrimpies can be more sensitive too...

Why is your tap kH 10, and your tank kH 6? Are you using distilled water? If not, how often/much do you change water?

(BTW... once you reach 100 posts you earn yourself 10 free cherry shrimps )
Thanks for the info.

About the KH, I actually measured my water at where I used to live some months ago. It was in the same town I live now, and my town is pretty small, so I figured it was the same here. I guess I could be wrong. It won't do me much good to test here now anyways cause I'm moving again, but if KH and GH can't change naturally, then I guess the water is softer here.

I change about 75% water every week.

PS
I'd love some free shrimpies.

"Where the problem lies is that our testing methods are not that accurate. If you use a standard pH test kit you can be up to a half a point off in either direction. The same can be said for most kH test kits."

I never realized liquid test kits could be off by that much. It always goes to show ya to do your research. In this case though, I didn't have to.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valleyvampiress
PS
I'd love some free shrimpies.
Make it out to the next southbay SFBAAPS meets and I'll bring you some myself.

Bill

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-29-2006, 04:02 AM Thread Starter
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Make it out to the next southbay SFBAAPS meets and I'll bring you some myself.
I hope you mean actual shrimpies, and not just short people.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-29-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
Wasserpest...

I must have missed my shipment of 10 free cherry shrimp.


The CO2 chart(s) are pretty accurate since the formula used is accurate. Where the problem lies is that our testing methods are not that accurate. If you use a standard pH test kit you can be up to a half a point off in either direction. The same can be said for most kH test kits.

And you have to know that the addition of any other acids to the tank, from peat or driftwood, will really skew the chart.

I'm curious Hoppy. What are your tank parameters that you get 270 ppm? Because I know that CO2 levels that high will effect fish. And what are your measurement methods?
My PH was 6 and KH was 9 degrees. I use LFS test kits for both measurements - Aquarium Pharmaceuticals brand. I once checked the KH result by adding enough baking soda to raise KH by 4 degrees and the measurement agreed. The PH was about 7 for my aged tap water, so I doubt it being way off. But, I have always had super high CO2 ppm based on the testing - so much that I rarely test now. I have tried KH at about 3 up to about 10, using baking soda to adjust it, and all give very high ppm CO2. For awhile I worked to keep the KH where the PH was in the most sensitive area of the color scale, but that didn't improve anything. So, I am just letting the fish tell me if CO2 is too high, and they don't say that. I know it is high enough because my slight BBA problem is gone now. It is perplexing!

Hoppy
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-30-2006, 08:57 PM
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Hoppy,
A dKh of 9 should yield a normal pH of about 7.8. if your rested tap water pH is 7.0 with a dKh of 9, you have other buffers and chemicals present in your water that are lowering the pH.

When this happens, the pH/Kh chart goes out the window. Get a water analysis from the water company to help figure out what has your water parameters askew.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 04:26 AM
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Tonight I plan to take a sample and check it tomorrow morning - PH especially. Right now I suspect my cork wall is dropping the PH, so if I am right, the PH will till be low tomorrow morning even with 3 ppm atmospheric CO2 in it.

Hoppy
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 01:35 PM
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A cork wall can affect the pH.
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