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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Strange water?

Hi all!

I have some interesting results as of late in my water. A few weeks back I had a bout with some bba and killed it with excel overdose. I have recently added some cherry shrimp. Now I have been battling some thread algae. Very minor but still there. I have been testing lately too. I haven't for a couple months. But with the new addition of shrimp I have been testing water more frequently lately.

These are my results:

kh=4
gh=9
no3=10 to 20
po4=1 to 2

These results should put my co2 to the moon. I have been testing bottomed out on a Aquarium pharm. narrow range ph test. Only goes to 6. My kh gh test was old so I bought a new one along with a pinpoint ph monitor. I wanted the monitor so I could be more accurate and because I bottom out the liquid test and have had it drilled in my head not to trust them . I have lost a few fish in the last 2 months but have never really seen them gasping at the surface. I have seen corys go up to the surface a few times but turn back and go to the bottom. I also have harliquin rasboras and they sometimes appear to do freakish things but never gasp. Occasionally as if they are suddenly surprise by my presence one or two will fly accross the tank and nose dive into the glass or the bottom. The fish will then lay stunned for a few min. then recover. ?? Are these signs of co2 stress? I lost a couple blue rams and thought it might be to the drastic ph swings at water changes. They seemed to hate them.

The pinpoint monitor after calibration puts my ph at 5.78
I can't believe anything but the plants are alive.

I also have seen a couple weird signs in a few plants. My luwiga plaustris has had some adverse effects on some leaves. Losing a bit of color. Bacopa monneri has kinda become transparent on some leaves and rotted on the stems. Hygro cory has had a couple leafs get some rot on them but not to severe. Everything else seems to be growing like weeds! I thought this all leaned to a calcium or magnesium deficiency. I just got some seachem Equilibrium and thought I would try some to see if I can rule that out.

My dosing schedule is as follows
30gal with 96 watts

s-t-t =macros
1/4 tsp no3
po4 from solution @ approximately 1.3
pottasium= 1/4 tsp(only on day of wc ...sunday)

m-w-f micros
5ml csm solution


I know there are a lot of weird questions here. I apologize for this. I am quite tired right now and more stupid than normal. But any input about any of this would be appreciated.

I am in the process of bringin my ph up to possibly 6.4 I suppose.
Can to much co2 be detrimental to the plants?

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 03:10 AM
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Plants are generally believed not to derive any additional benefit from CO2 over 30ppm.

Some people seem to have problems with their fish if they go even the slightest bit over 30ppm. On the other hand, I have heard of some people running very high CO2 levels, like 72ppm, without bad effects. But if your tests are correct, you're setting a record at over 120ppm.

Sounds like backing off slowly is the right thing to try. 6.4pH would give you 48ppm CO2, which although still high, is at least within the realm of sanity. But let your plants be the ultimate guide in case something is fooling your test kits. Check for continued pearling, growth, etc.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 04:14 AM
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What is your pH out of the tap? Have you checked out your sitting pH (say 5 gallon bucket with 3 or 4 gallons in it) Let it sit for a day or two, stirring occasionally. You/we have to know the water's parameters in order to figure out what is happening. That is not a pleasant pH for most fish so you should get that up to the mid 6 area, probably. I agree it sounds like your CO2 is set too high and is dropping your pH. Is your kh staying at or near 4? As you know anything below 3 pH can trigger a crash.

And yes, its desireable to have the change water be semi close to the tank's water parms. If its too far off, then do more frequent changes with less volume per change. That's why I have a 50 gallon change prep tank for my quite acidic tap water. If done correctly, my fish hardly notice a 25% water change after I have prepared my water.





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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 04:38 AM
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What filtration do you have on the tank? sounds like the biomedia is either young or old., explain please.
96w is a lot of lumens for a 30g, do you run that full 10hr's?

pH of 5.7 is very acidic, cherries can handle it to a degree, rams on the other hand are very sensitive, especially to sudden change in water condition's when running the tank that acidic.

You have asked some very good question's.
I run a couple of tank's acidic, it is tricky trying to keep livestock in those condition's.

Craig

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response peeps!

Okay... Think I'm a little more alert compared to last night. TGIF!

I had a bucket standing all night with tap water and just tested it.

kh =2.5
gh =6.5
ph =7.5
no3 =0
po4 =.01

My filtration is a 2213 and my tank has been up for close to 6 months. I haven't really tested much for the last 2 and a half months. For some reason I decided to test a week ago and found that my numbers have all dropped across the board on my tap water. My water district must have changed something because my water is normally harder than it is now. I haven't been able to track my ph since it bottomed out my liquid test. Now that I have a monitor I can be more precise. Plus the bonus of a new toy thrills me!!! woohoo! (shhhhh....snuck it past the wife). Only thing is.....not knowing much about them I only bought 7ph calibration solution only to find ya need 2 calibration points. DUH! Makes sense to me now. This little learning experience cost 7.95 in shipping to get another point solution that I have yet to order. Why I can never order everything I want at once is beyond trying to figure out anymore.


I am do for a water change.
Because of my new water conditions my plan of action is as follows.

The usual clean tank well and prune.

I am going to add baking soda to increase my kh slightly. (any idea of how much to add to raise 25gallons of water 1dh ?)

I got some seachem equilibrium this week and will add probably 3/8 tsp to rule out ca mg problems. (sound like a proper amount? going buy Tom's test tank for EI article)

Lastly back to normal dosages.

Any suggestions or course corrections on my plan of action appreciated.

This change in tap values really took me by surprise. FYI my old values were
gh=16
kh=5
same elsewhere.... think someone at the water plant has been smokin the weedys!



thanks
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 10:17 PM
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My tap always changes seasonally, it's a good idea to keep tabs on that.
kH of 2.5 would explain your dilemma, after injecting C02, the pH would plummet, giving you very acidic water, time for some Tonina's

Nitrate level's can rise sharply also with those conditions, that is why I asked about the filter and media, but that is another thread/story all together.

One teaspoon of baking soda added to 50 liters of water can raise the kH of the water by approx 4 dH.

Craig

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

By the way I did notice some elevated nitrates and backed off my does to 1/8tsp for the past week and a half. Hopefully I can get this train back on the tracks this week.

Again thanks for the help.
hmmmmm tonina's never even thought it was possible for me but Alas!



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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 03:12 AM
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Crushed coral in your filter is alot cheaper than Seachem's Equilibrium, which requires a hammer and chisel to take out of the plastic jar, after a few months. 1/4 cup CC for a 50 gallon tank will keep your KH/GH up nicely. But you might want to put something in so the water is closer at change time. And test the water, obviously, if you use the CC periodically at first to get a handle on how its working. I paid one dollar for a lb. of crushed coral (small pea sized). Good luck. bob


BTW, I only use the 7.0 pH buffer to calibrate my Hanna pHep 4. It works fine with just the 7.0 buffer. And the same goes for using a Milwaukee SMS-122. Its actually easier to get a good calibration with just the 7.0 buffer, rather than using both. I have read or heard that from others on the forum before as well.





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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
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One calibration solution .... cool thanks for the tip. I will google for my pinpoint and see if I can do this. I hate to order some solution only and pay for the shipping.

My WC tomarrow does concern me. My ph is still low and I am worried about a drastic change. I think I will add the new water slowly(maybe a quarter inch siphon over a period of an hour). Then slowly add the baking soda after my co2 is on. I hope I don't lose anything. I think the harlequin rasboras the corys and the ottos can handle it. They have been handling all other water changes for last 3 weeks no problem. And those wc were quick. I am however concerned about my shrimp. I just added them last week and this will be my first wc with them in the tank.

I already have the equilibrium and its already brick form. lol


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