raising GH via calcium chloride and epsom - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2006, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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raising GH via calcium chloride and epsom

I did a planted tank forums search on this and found a ratio of
1 : 3 to be most appropriate

since i dont have a gram scale to dose accurately what could you guys advice on how i should dose my tank ? its 13 gallons ... im not sure about the GH level but a planted friend of mine who lives nearby says its really low.

I also read that you should not mix both calcium chloride and epsom at the same time ?? can i just dump the powder chems into my HOB to be dissolved ?

thanks for looking

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...lcium+chloride

i also read here that you just need to dose mgso4 to solve all problems ? hmmm or i did not read the thread properly...
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-22-2006, 09:53 PM
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magnesium sulfate you can just dump in the tank with a measuring spoon, you dont have to be extreamly accurate. same for calcium sulfate. The cheapest way to raise you Ca is by adding a mesh bag of crushed coral to your filter. If you do it that way youll want to dose magnesium depending on how much calcium is dissolving in the water. Just try and shoot for the 1:3 ratio.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuks
magnesium sulfate you can just dump in the tank with a measuring spoon, you dont have to be extreamly accurate.
That may not be the case based on some recent posts I've been reading. Too much magnesium may cause problems with some species of fish, invertebrates, and plants. For example, Edward over at APC recently did an experiment and found that Rotala Wallichii stops growing when Magnesium levels reach 10 ppm. When he lowered the magnesium levels, it started growing again:



I'm also not sure why someone would just want to "dump it in" without dissolving it first. Some will fall to the substrate and may cause problems for both fish and plants by creating concentrated pockets. It only takes a moment to put it in a glass, add water, and stir it with a spoon first.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shuks
same for calcium sulfate.
He's using calcium chloride, not calcium sulfate.

Calcium Sulfate is insoluble... it will actually dissolve given enough time and stirring, but it takes a long time. If you were to just dump dry calcium sulfate directly into your tank, it will fall to the bottom undissolved.

Getting back to one of kenneth_kpe's questions, you can try dissolving calcium chloride and magnesium sulfate in the same container, but you will get calcium sulfate precipitate out. Not too hard to just mix and dose them from separate containers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shuks
The cheapest way to raise you Ca is by adding a mesh bag of crushed coral to your filter.
This will raise both KH and GH. I believe he only wants to raise GH. I have also found the "crushed coral in the filter" approach to be very inaccurate for those people who are trying to target a specific increase. A lot of factors will depend on how much the KH and GH will rise, such as the type of coral, the consistency of it, the water flow, the CO2 content of the water, etc. CaCl2 and MgSO4 allows the user to measure and target a specific increase and obtain the results instantly. If the user needs to raise it a lot and doesn't want to stress fish, they can simply divide the dosage into smaller dosages over the course of several days.

I also doubt the cost argument... the price of a bag of crushed coral + mesh media bags vs. the price of chemicals from Greg Watson... doesn't seem like that much of a cost advantage to me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shuks
If you do it that way youll want to dose magnesium depending on how much calcium is dissolving in the water. Just try and shoot for the 1:3 ratio.
See my link above regarding the magnesium, also it's important to note we are talking about a 3:1 to 4:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium, or 1:3 magnesium to calcium.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth_kpe
i also read here that you just need to dose mgso4 to solve all problems ? hmmm or i did not read the thread properly...
Where exactly did you read that? There is no one thing you can add to a tank that will act as an "all in one" solution to any and/or every possible problem.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Hi hypancistrus, thanks for taking time to reply to my question regarding calcium. That was i was worried about, mixing them both in the same solution which will lead to a precipitation. The link i posted in my first post is where i got most of the info, it was the link the provided the most information. The adding epsom salts only can be found on the bottom of the last post. Il take time to read the link you posted, it is a bit long, i will post questions later when i get home if i dont get the post..

But the ratio im trying to target for is right 3parts calcium for every 1 part mg. How do i go about to dose this accurately ? my tank is only 13 gallons and i only dose during water changes ? can i do a pinch of mg and 3 pinches of ca ? it will be highly inaccurate but its the best i can think of now

*just finished reading it, could not help reading it here at work! anyway il review it again later but when i was breezing thru the posts i saw that it is much more important to keep the 3:1 ratio rather then guesstimating the dosage ? this worries me ....
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 09:10 AM
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I think your are making too big a deal about the GH thing. If you have a descent amount of gh, you probably have enough Ca and if you think you might be deficient in Mg, just dose a small amount to rule it out, otherwise don't worry about it.

The cases where you would worry about GH and Ca is if you have extremely soft water or RO water. I only dosed Ca and Mg because my water is super soft in my area and my GH turned out to be 1.

I have seen the APC thread. All i got out of it was to not go crazy dosing Mg and Ca trying to reach some ratio.

I would test your water and find out for yourself what your GH is. If it turns out to be 0, then you can worry yourself about dosing to get around 20ppm of Ca and 2-5ppm of Mg.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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i should go get a GH test kit first but im already told that water around my area is really soft, i can test KH and its almost 0, GH i am yet to test but my friend who lives nearby does and he says its pretty low
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 09:17 AM
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You should just use the fertilator then and look to dose 10-30 ppm Ca and 2-5ppm Mg.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...fertilator.php

The Gh itself isn't too important nor is the ratio as long as you have enough of this stuff for the plants to use.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmydrsv
You should just use the fertilator then and look to dose 10-30 ppm Ca and 2-5ppm Mg.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...fertilator.php

The Gh itself isn't too important nor is the ratio as long as you have enough of this stuff for the plants to use.
That's one opinion and technique, not fact.

If what you are saying is true, I could add 2000 ppm of both ca and mg and my plants would grow great.

I personally recommend measuring, dosing, and testing to verify you are in the neighborhood of where you want to be. My own opinion and technique.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-23-2006, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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id like to try both methods how do you go about your method hypancistrus ? do you mix a stock solution ? I find mixing with water much more accurate compared to adding it dry... altough im not sure if calcium chloride and empsom would last that long if mixed with water....
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