CO2 Chart Comments - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2005, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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I think no chart will ever be perfect for everyone.

I myself am a stickler for precision, so I use calculation to derive my CO2 levels, as charts are either too simplified, or are absolutely huge to cover all possible values with precision over a large range.

Perhaps it would be better to provide multiple charts; one for low KH/low ph, one for low KH, high pH, etc etc?

I could create a chart(s) quite easily if necessary.


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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-16-2005, 10:38 AM
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I have a chart that came with some software that claims between 10 and 40 ppm is the good range. Another thing is that when ever I use the Ph and Kh to calculate my CO2 it's around say 36ppm, if I test the water for CO2 it will come back 10ppm lower at 26. I use the chart and the test kit and figure I'm some where in between.


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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2005, 11:02 AM
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OK, dumb question maybe, but Kh in this chart, is it measured in ppm or German hardness? Hopefully german harness, meaning IŽd have to multiply my KH20 ppm by 0,056? = 1,12??? Is that wright?

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2005, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven
OK, dumb question maybe, but Kh in this chart, is it measured in ppm or German hardness? Hopefully german harness, meaning IŽd have to multiply my KH20 ppm by 0,056? = 1,12??? Is that wright?
The KH of this chart (as most charts) is in german degrees.

20ppm CaCO3 does equal 1.12 degrees.


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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-20-2005, 09:55 PM
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I am new here and am trying to understand this and get some clarifications. My tap water is ph 8.4, gH 3, kH 11, and pH climbs to 8.8 when off-gased.

The values in the chart, does it still apply to my water when it says a ph value of 7 with CO2 of about 30ppm? With my water parameters, would I really be able to get to ph7 with ~30ppm of CO2?

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyn
I am new here and am trying to understand this and get some clarifications. My tap water is ph 8.4, gH 3, kH 11, and pH climbs to 8.8 when off-gased.

The values in the chart, does it still apply to my water when it says a ph value of 7 with CO2 of about 30ppm? With my water parameters, would I really be able to get to ph7 with ~30ppm of CO2?

Thanks,
HueyN
With the addition of CO2 you would be able to.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 01:29 AM
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Here is a different way of looking at the relationship between CO2/KH/PH.
It is a single continuous line.


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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyn
With my water parameters, would I really be able to get to ph7 with ~30ppm of CO2?

Thanks,
HueyN
As Rex said, yes if you add CO2 gas.
Plants want CO2, not a pH/KH value. The pH/Kh value is used merely to measure CO2, using bufferes to adjust the pH/KH etc will not add CO2........which is what the plants want, not pH buffers etc.

So add enough CO2 to lower your pH to 7.0 with your KH level.
That's all you have to do to get 30ppm of CO2.

Pretty easy?

Stu,

Even the more pecise methods, you stikll have a fair amount of play in the measurement, roughly + or - 5ppm and sometimes more depending on test kit range.

Like NO3, PO4 etc, you should use standards for pH and KH before you decide you have say 28ppm, that's just an estimation, not an absolute number.

I've said it's much more useful to focus on a range rather than a discrete number.

Plants have a wide range and you simply do not need such accuracy until you get down to limiting conditions for the plants.

I suggest 20-30ppm and error on the high side and watch the fish.
10ppm might be okay in a lower light tank and if the 10ppm is truly stable, but that is seldom ever the case, so adding more than enough to saturate the plant's CO2 needs is the way to go.



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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 04:58 PM
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Thanks guys for your responses!

Shalu, I know you have great success with a planted Discus tank. That is what I am trying to do. However, one question comes to mind. If I have a planted tank with CO2 injection to bring pH from 8.8 down to 7 or so, what do I do when it comes time for water change? I will have water that I pre-age and brought up to temp for water changes but this water will be a pH of 8.8. Wouldn't this pH swing affect the discus? I am sorry if this question doesn't belong in this thread.

Thanks in advance!
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 05:02 PM
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In that case instead of doing a single massive weekly water change do smaller daily changes.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyn
Thanks guys for your responses!

Shalu, I know you have great success with a planted Discus tank. That is what I am trying to do. However, one question comes to mind. If I have a planted tank with CO2 injection to bring pH from 8.8 down to 7 or so, what do I do when it comes time for water change? I will have water that I pre-age and brought up to temp for water changes but this water will be a pH of 8.8. Wouldn't this pH swing affect the discus? I am sorry if this question doesn't belong in this thread.

Thanks in advance!
Huey
yes, this is off topic, but I use straight tap water. It seems Discus don't care squatt about ph swings within reason . I do 50%-60% water change, add water conditioner directly to tank. Tap ph is close to 8, tank ph 6.7. You can do say 30% twice a week, the swing will be smaller. Remember PH is log scale, so the average is not the mid point, closer to tank ph.


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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2005, 08:16 PM
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Thanks guys! Very informative!
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-18-2005, 12:45 AM
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ok I Got the formula for this chart from Chuck's website and from this thread,

co2=3*KH(in ger deg) * 10^(7-ph)

kh(ger deg) = KH (ppm) * 0.056

I used these items to create a excel spread sheet (like rex did)

Here is the image of the screen, if anyone wants the excel spreadsheet you can pm me with your email address and I will email it to you.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 04:03 AM
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So the only way to calculate co2 is to measure ph and kh?
My water tested with hagen test kits shows 120ppm kh and a ph 7.8.
In order to keep a decent co2 ppm ph would have to drop to around 7.

Let's say that I managed to achive that result using my current diy setup.
Isnt there a big probability of a disaster (ph crash if for some reason the diy system fails)?
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 01:25 PM
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DIY failure

DIY is more likely to fail with a foam up, getting nasty yeast water into the tank that gums up gills and plants, or by low rate. But, if you make a strong mix it may give such a high rate at first that you can go too low on pH, typically if it does, then it also declines rapidly and has a short life. Therefore, you need to chart what pH response you get a various bubble rates. Then if the initial rate looks too fast, you can add aeration or something to either slow the diffusion of the bubbles or break some CO2 out of solution via surface agitation until the rate calms down.

I suggest you keep excellent notes of how you mix the recipe and how it responds initially and after a few days. You will end up tweaking the mix to find what works best for your tank.

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