I'm so confused I could cry. 10 gallon woes. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 305
Unhappy I'm so confused I could cry. 10 gallon woes.

I have a 10 gal. All the info about what's in it is in my signature block.

Here's my target parameters:
PH: 6.5-7.3
KH : 90-100
GH : 30-120
Co2 : 20-30 ppm
Ammonia: 0
N03 : 5-10 ppm

Here's my tap parameters:
PH: 7.3
KH: 30
GH: 60
Co2: 2.5
Ammonia: 0.05
N03: 0.1

Here's what I have:
PH: 7.3
KH: 90
GH: 220
Co2: 7.5
Ammonia: 0.05
N03: 0.0

Here is my proposed dosing schedule:
(Hoping to use the "ESTIMATIVE INDEX" once I understand the water situation)

**NOTE: This tank is at work, so dosing is Monday-Friday

Monday
- Flourish Excel for Extra C02 (Few drops)
- Flourish Nitrogen for Macro-KNO3 Potassium Nitrate (1/8 tsp)
- Flourish Phosphorus for Macro-KH2PO4 (1/32 tsp)
- Flourish Potassium for Macro-K2P04 (1/32 tsp)

Tuesday
- Flourish Excel for Extra C02 (Few drops)
- Trace for Trace elements (Half capful)
- Flourish for Trace & micro-nutrients (Half capful)
- Flourish Iron for Ferrous iron (1/4 capful)

Wednesday
- Same dosing as per Monday

Thursday
- Same dosing as per Tuesday

Friday
- Same dosing as per Monday and Wednesday

I was so pleased with myself for getting the schedule figured out. I have on-hand, Seachem Flourish, Iron and Excel. I went to the LFS today ready to snap-up another $100 is chemicals (the Trace, the Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium) - they don't cary any of these, only the 3 that I already have. This LFS is also the only one in town to sell Seachem products!

The manager then made me feel like a bumbling idiot because he said one should only ever dose with the 3 products I already have, and that adding Nitrogen or Phosphorus would cause an algae explosion.

Well, my heart grew faint. Not algae!

So, here I am with a manager who won't sell me what I think I want. A dosing schedule that is half full of products sure to evoke pandemonium with algae. I have friends in the fish tank world saying that if I don't start dosing nitrogen the tank will crash and burn with an epidemic outbreak of bga. I have my GH out of control and nearly non existant C02 (although I'm shaking the [censored][censored][censored][censored] out of the bottles trying to make it explode with little bubbles and it's hard to get my work done this way).

DO I SOUND STRESSED?!?!?!? I'm practically breathing into my lunch bag trying to keep myself from hyperventilating. If they'd only let me drink at work! I need help. Serious help... soon to be psycho-therapeutic help if someone doesn't help me straighten this out. And I need basic... I'm trying to learn and read and ask and research, but at what point does my head explode with contradicting advice, acronyms for chemicals that look absurd and no time to work because I'm constantly on this forum begging for knowledge.

God bless plantedtank.net by the way!!

Should I add a pinch of baking soda to make the gH go down?

Does Greg Watson sell these Seachem products? I don't want the bother of mixing stuff - just the overly expensive bottle of ready-made, hopefully fool-proof, silver bullet liquids, please!

Someone said I should be doing reverse osmosis water. Will bottled water do? Mineral water? It's a 10 gal. low-tech tank at work. Somehow I just can't see adding a RO machine to the mix!

Does that stinking dosing schedule even seem feasible?

Thoughts? Opinions? A paper bag to breathe into? I would be most appreciative for your help!
julesann is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 12:21 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Rex Grigg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (65/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland Orygun
Posts: 9,600
The manager did you a favor.

Buy bulk nutrients from Greg Watson and mix them in solutions. Inexpensive and bullet proof. Why spend $100 when you can spend $15 and get at least 20X as much?

Other than that the manager at the LFS is an idiot.

Next you need to discover why the gH in the tank is so much higher than the gH out of the tap.

Baking soda will NOT lower gH. It will raise the pH and kH.

Excel is NOT CO2. It doesn't lower pH like CO2. It's a source of organic carbon that can have SOME of the effects of CO2.

BTW, when you run out of Flourish Trace, just fill the bottle with tap water. It's pretty close to the same thing.

Your tap water is fine. There is no need to use another water source for the tank

KNO3 will do the same thing as Seachem Nitrogen
KH2PO4 will do the same thing as Seachem Phosphorus
K2SO4 will do the same thing as Seachem Potassium
Plantex CSM+B will supply trace minerals

Get the bulk nutrients and any one of many people here can help you mix solutions.
Rex Grigg is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 12:27 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Georgiadawgger's Avatar
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,423
Have patience, things can only get better.

As far as the LFS manager, does he/she even have a planted tank in the store that is comparable to what you see on this board...if not, I wouldn't take his advice...in fact order online (much cheaper).

As far as dosing, IMO you're adding way too much for only 2 wpg in a 10g tank. If you can find the photoalbum thread I started a few weeks back "My GF's 10 gallon" (or something along the lines of that)...check out her setup. Very very similar to yours but minus all the extra ferts.

With only 2 wpg (or less because of the smaller tank issue) uptake of nitrates and phosphates is going to be relatively slow...as well as any micros.

There's no need to dose everyday for a supposedly low-maintenance tank. Here's what I would do:

1. prune all the algae out you can...if its so bad you have to start over, so be it...algae will not disappear magically (why can't some people grasp this fact??)
2. Clean out your filter
3. get that DIY co2 cranking.
4. the excel shot here and there is good, my GF does that when she remembers to.
5. 1/8 teaspoon KNO3 after water change...again on Wednesday (if you do water change on Sunday). A tad bit more than 1/32 teaspoon of PO4.
6. micros: plantex or fluorish (skip the additional iron for now) 3mL Mon, Wed, Fri.
7. feed your fish and let them poop a lot


See what that does. My GF doesn't even dose micros since she feeds her fish so much, but there is no algae and the plants are doing fine. However she does have almost twice the amount of light as you have.

Keep that paper bag handy...this will be a test of your patience

Re-boot!
Georgiadawgger is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 305
Thank you so much. I will contact Greg Watson for P04.

I will not add Baking soda!

I will take any advice on how to discern why my gH is so high!

I did do a 50% H20 change last night, pruned, vacuumed lightly and cleaned the filter.

This morning the water seems murky and there's algae! It could be staghorn or fuzz.

I have an Otocinclus and Clown Pleco hard at work, as well as 2 panda cory bottom feeders.

Georgiadawgger, when you say prune all the algae you can, does that mean chopping down the plants to nearly the roots? yanking off the leaves that are infested? Wiping off the leaves? What about a bleach dip?

Thank you so much for your help!
julesann is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:06 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,614
Diy Co2

next time you mix the CO2 try adding a teaspoon of baking soda, if you are using bread yeast that will keep the pH of the mix in the range that bread yeast seem to like.
anonapersona is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 305
Thank you, I will use the baking soda when I remix today. I use regular baker's yeast - should I be using bread yest instead?
julesann is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 06:58 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Georgiadawgger's Avatar
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by julesann

Georgiadawgger, when you say prune all the algae you can, does that mean chopping down the plants to nearly the roots? yanking off the leaves that are infested? Wiping off the leaves? What about a bleach dip?

Thank you so much for your help!
Yup...prune, pick, cut, slash, burn, etc...untill there is absolutely none of it in there (visible). If you have to get new plants, that's a minor setback (you still need to keep the plant biomass at a relatively high level). If you can salvage any of the existing plants, they'll be fine and resprout new stems/leaves.

A bleach dip will work, but IMO is a harsh way to do it...some stem plants will survive a 30s bleach, but sometimes even that won't work for really bad cases of BBA and such. It has no effect on green spot (IME). I believe the standard bleach dip is 1 part bleach to 19 parts water. Hold by the roots and tip into the solution for 30 seconds (less or more) until you see a color change in the algae (requires working under good light). As far as hardier species i.e. anubias and java ferns you can dip longer, but don't get the rhizome bleached.

I hope this works out for you! Don't get too discouraged...we're all here to help and get this tank of yours into great shape. Cheers!

Re-boot!
Georgiadawgger is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 07:13 PM
jgc
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Shiner, TX
Posts: 960
brewers yeast is probably better, if you can find some - certain wine yeasts might be even better yet. Bread yeast is sposed to eat and burp and die. Brewers yeast is sposed to live long and prosper - and make make alcohol along the way. Some wine yeast can tolerate far harsher conditions and keep chugging when other yeast has already died off to to toxins (beloved alohol), but still has penty of sugar to feed on. This is based on homebrew, not aquarium experiance though.

58 gallon oceanic, Kessel 360 tun sun, pressurized co2, eheim pimp #179 - 2217 and diffuser
jgc is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-27-2005, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 305
Great info - thanks! And thank you GD for explaining how to try and save my tank from becoming an algae farm. I appreciate everyone's patience and encouragement!
julesann is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2005, 02:48 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by julesann
Thank you, I will use the baking soda when I remix today. I use regular baker's yeast - should I be using bread yest instead?
That is fine, Fleishemann'sor whatever, as compared to wine or beer yeast which IME does fine in acidic water and hates baking soda, the bread yeast from the grocery store hates acidic water and needs that alkaline kick from baking soda.

Sometimes that is all it takes to get a great response from the DIY CO2. (But, do NOT try to add it to an old "in progress" DIY bottle, it will foam up like the old grade school volcano project!! But it stinks more!)
anonapersona is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-28-2005, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 305
LOL, thanks for the advice to not add to existing mix - sounds like a larned!
julesann is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome