lowering PH via co2=acidic water? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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lowering PH via co2=acidic water?

If one raises co2 to lower ph, is the water acidic? or is this an "artificial" way of lowering ph and not truly acidic water?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 11:53 AM
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We don't inject CO2 to lower pH. We inject CO2 to give the plants carbon. It just happens to lower pH as well.

The injection of CO2 creates carbonic acid in in the water which is acidic, therefore lowering the pH.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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so does that make the water genuinely more acidic than say adding peat to the water?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 10:02 PM
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ph IS the measurement of acidity. There is no "genuine" or "fake" acidity for the same ph. Peat does a lot more things than just lowering ph, it also lowers hardness and add its own organic stuff to water.


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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalu
ph IS the measurement of acidity. There is no "genuine" or "fake" acidity for the same ph. Peat does a lot more things than just lowering ph, it also lowers hardness and add its own organic stuff to water.
my question is really about toninas. is it good enough to use fluorite and lower ph via co2. or do they really need an acidic substrate like ADA soil to thrive. my toninas are not making it in low ph water and fluorite. several of those people who raised toninas say they need soft acidic water/substrate to grow and not waste away. expcept for tom barr who says fluorite will be ok.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 10:47 PM
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So the question isn't really about ph. Frankly, I haven't figured out Toninas, regardless whether I use peat or not, even at ph<5.0(with lots of peat and RO water). I will keep trying. T. fluviatilis does ok for me, not the belem.


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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-2005, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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well, it was about ph, because i want to grow toninas!


as ive noticed, most who grow it well grow it in an acidic substrate like florabase or ada. i know when i was in taiwan, they grew toninas well, and it was almost always in some sort of ADA style soil.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 01:28 AM
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You need more than a low pH to grow Tonina's well, water also has to be extremly soft, kh/0-2, no more than 3/gH.
Flora Base or ADA sub is a plus, but I think it can be done without it.

Craig

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WfxXx
You need more than a low pH to grow Tonina's well, water also has to be extremly soft, kh/0-2, no more than 3/gH.
Flora Base or ADA sub is a plus, but I think it can be done without it.

ive got a kh of 2.5 -3 and 1-2 gh.
ill drop down the kh a degree to try it out.

question though. those who are sucessful with tonina, is an acidic substrate or water more important. ive been hearing that the acidic substrate is key.

actually, now that i think about it, there are those who grow it fine with 2-3 kh and a gh over 10....
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 02:47 PM
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It's an art

There is a difference in growing Tonina, and growing Tonina "well", or any other softwater plant for that matter, with Tonina, the more acidic the better, so an acidic sub and water are equally important.
At this time I use FloraBase w/the addition of peat & sand.
I have been growing Tonina for a few year's, I think I about have it nailed on how to grow it "well". but it is a secret

You're kH is a little high and you're gH is a little low, I can grow it with a kH/4-gH/8 it is not real glorious in those condition's, but it does live...

Craig

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WfxXx
There is a difference in growing Tonina, and growing Tonina "well", or any other softwater plant for that matter, with Tonina, the more acidic the better, so an acidic sub and water are equally important.
At this time I use FloraBase w/the addition of peat & sand.
I have been growing Tonina for a few year's, I think I about have it nailed on how to grow it "well". but it is a secret

You're kH is a little high and you're gH is a little low, I can grow it with a kH/4-gH/8 it is not real glorious in those condition's, but it does live...
so you would say WfxXx, that fluorite is not going to work for the tonina? i read in your other post that with fluorite your tonina didnt thrive well at all. im trying to nail down the best conditions for the plant. the majority states acidic substrate. but some are growing it in low kh and gh and some in higher gh. but all in acidic substrate. looks like thats the key.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 12:10 AM
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The Key

Hello thatguy..do you have a real name?
If you want to grow Tonina, I at least got to know the name :wink


Okay. No I am not saying you "cannot" grow Tonina in Flourite, I am betting you can, I did for a couple of year's, I just didn't know Tonina very well at the time, and did not take the time to read the plant.

I know a guy who grow's Tonina, Erio's and other demanding plant's in plain ol silica sand., with root tabs, that's it, and they look good!
once you see them grow in acid, man, you never really see them the same again
Tonina's do not have much of a root structure, unlike most Erio's.
So most all of the plant intake is thru stem/leave's, and with a healthy Tonina, there are alot of leaves on a single stem.
Need good strong light, abundant C02, plenty of nutrient's, all of them, dicipline, and patience... reading the plant's is the key.

What are you're water parameter's?
and what material equipment do you have to work with? everything!
Do you have an RO unit? not that it is an absolute necessity...but.

now I am going to go over here and tinker with my tonina for a bit..

Craig

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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the name is J

As for my conditions. I had them in a fluorite tank. Co2 pressurized via glass diffusor, about 6.5 ph and a kh of 3, to hit about 30 ppm. I do have fish in the tank, so i worried about too much co2. gh, very low, 1-3 tops.
ei fert method with greg watson ferts.
260 watts of CF and its a 55 gallon.

all of my toninas did ok, but looked to be slowly wasting away, especially from the roots/bottom. oddly enough, when they float, they do much better! i replanted the stems that floated for a few weeks and after 1 week it already started to brown out on me

i also have a smaller 10 gallon ada substrate tank that now houses the toninas. that tank has very low ph and high co2, no fish or shrimp so i pump the co2. 28 watts CF over it.

no ro, just tap. out the tap there is almost no kh and no gh.
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