Prime when where why and how - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Prime when where why and how

Prime when should you use it?

Where do you put it in the filter in the tank or in the Water change bucket?

Why would you use it?

How does it work does it remove the ammonia nitrite and nitrates or just neutralize them and are they still toxic to the fish?

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 02:20 PM
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You use it during wager changes or adding water to your tank. Add it in the bucket is best if you have a smaller tank. I add it directly into the tank for my 95G.

It's used for dechlorinating, getting rid of the chlorine in your tap so it doesn't kill the beneficial bacteria in your filter media.

You don't need to use it if you're using RO water.


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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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How does it work on the ammonia nitrite and nitrates?

I don't know where I'm going but I'm on my way.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 03:32 PM
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I think you are getting fooled by some of the marketing hype. I use Prime to take care of the chloramine in my water. It is reputed to have some other benefits. It will not take care of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrates. It may help in emergency situations but it is not designed as a cure-all.
Prime is a good product that many use. Whether you add it before during or after seems to make little difference. Once it finds them there is a chemical reaction and they are made safe. Chlorine damage is a comparatively slow process and the chemical reaction is very quick if the correct amount of Prime is used.

Think of it as trying to find a friend. If you look for them in a room of 20 people you can find them fast. If you want to find them in a stadium with 20,000 people, you need lots more friends to do the job quickly. Dose it for the total volume of water where the Prime is used. If you add it to the tank, dose for the tank volume. If you mix it in a bucket before adding it to the tank, dose for the bucket volume.

Dealing with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is a seperate issue.
Some reading to help understand that part?

http://www.freshwater-aquarium-fish...._chemistry.htm
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 04:05 PM
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Prime is used here dealing with shipped fish arriving in the cesspool shipping water turns into.
Many use it to lock ammonia during acclamation.
While Seachem claims it has effect on nitrites simply using sea salt or 1 level teaspoon uniodized salt per 10 gallons will eliminate brown blood problems. Prime I believe does lock ammonia.



Seachem has three conditioners formulated to remove ammonia:
Safe™, Prime™, and AmGuard™. All three remove ammonia by
chemically converting it to a nontoxic cyclic amine. Safe™ is a dry
product intended primarily to remove chlorine, chloramine, and
municipal ammonia. Prime™ is a liquid product with the same detoxifying
functions as Safe™ with added essential ions and natural
slime coat stimulating agents. AmGuard™ is formulated primarily for
emergency ammonia removal from distressed aquaria. While Safe™
and Prime™ are designed to handle the moderate ammonia
concentrations found in municipal water systems,
AmGuard™ is designed to handle much higher
ammonia concentrations. It reacts rapidly with
ammonia. It is beneficial in any high ammonia
situation, including the establishment of new
tanks. Overdosing should be avoided.


http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGr...Management.pdf


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If at first you don't succeed,,, keep kicking it
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2-75g planted, 3-55g planted, 110g w/30g sump, 2018 update returning to sanity (Nutz)
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 04:19 PM
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Prime is primarily a dechlorinator. It breaks apart the chloramine bond and locks up the chlorine and ammonia so they are not toxic to the fish. Nitrifying bacteria can still access the ammonia, and in a cycled tank they remove the ammonia. I do not know what happens to the chlorine.
Prime also locks up nitrite and nitrate. I think nitrifying bacteria can still get to the nitrite.
I am not sure what happens to the nitrate. Perhaps live plants could use it? Perhaps the anaerobic denitrifying organisms can use it? Maybe the only way to get rid of it is with water changes.

Best use as a dechlor is to mix it with the new water at the dose stated, then circulate that water a bit. Action is very fast, so you can pretty much immediately put that water in the tank. (I would add the dose to a 5 gallon bucket, swirl it once with my hand, then dump it in the tank)
As so well illustrated by plantedrich, you can also dose Prime as you are refilling the tank, but dose for the whole tank volume.

Best use in emergency (high ammonia or nitrite) situations is to do as large a water change as possible, then dose Prime per label directions for the amount of ammonia remaining in the water. Adding sodium chloride for nitrite toxicity can be done at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons.
In case of ammonia or nitrite emergency try to do enough water changes, frequency and volume, to keep the ammonia under .25 ppm and the nitrite under 1 ppm, then use salt and Prime to help out. (of course solving the problem of where these toxins are coming from is part of the solution)

As for the other claims, I am not sure my fish need an enhanced slime coat; they are producing all the slime coat they need.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
I do not know what happens to the chlorine.
I'm pretty sure it just stays in the water column as a non-harmful ion until you remove it via water changes.

I dose it to a water aging bucket prior to adding it to the tank. The way I look at it: it may react quickly with chlorine/ammonia, but it can't act on stuff that it hasn't touched yet. If I put it in the water and make sure that it gets nice and mixed prior to adding it to the tank, the chlorine can't go around messing with my ecosystem while the prime looks for it.

I believe that it'll also "lock up" heavy metals that might be in your water supply, too.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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ok thanks all

I don't know where I'm going but I'm on my way.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 10:59 PM
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It's often one of the big questions for new fish people when they start thinking about treating the water. But when you begin to look around and find how many peoploe do it all sorts of ways and they all find it works for them, it leads me to believe it is just not a big deal WHEN the dechlor is added. Just make sure it is added at more or less the same time as the new water. I add mine before adding the water just because that gives me less chance to forget. I keep my jug in front of the hose so I have to move it first.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 01:52 AM
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it doesnt lock up chlorine it speeds up its decay
chlorine rapidly evaporates on its own. most dechorinators make this happen faster

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
...it is just not a big deal WHEN the dechlor is added. Just make sure it is added...
Again, we see eye to eye on this.

Whatever system you have so as not to forget to add it the the best method.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 02:57 AM
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Oh yea, and the 'lock up heavy metals' is often one or more chelators. (Does Prime do this? I know some other water treatments will lock up heavy metals) The chelators have a range of affinity for different metals, so if something comes along that they like better than what they are already attached to, the one thing will get bumped off, and the new thing will get locked in.
Fortunately for us the generally more toxic metals seem to be the best attracted, so they are the hardest to knock out of place once they are attached.
More info in Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium.
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