Oxegyn and Co2 in high flow tanks with lids. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Oxegyn and Co2 in high flow tanks with lids.

Hi!

Super high flow/surface agitation and Co2 don't get along well, I know that. Wanted to know peoples experiences injecting with a high flow setup, how it works, any tips.

Similarly, when you are trying to get lots of oxygenation in a tank with a close to full coverage lid, are there any issues? Just need to make sure that you have some small openings (maybe holes drilled if the lid is Lexan)?

Thanks for your input.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 04:51 PM
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i run a wet/dry filter so everyone assumes i waste tons and tons of c02

it adds more than neccessary amounts of oxygen to the water, and when sealed in certain areas prevents excessive c02 burnoff

the lid will hold back some c02 thus increasing concentrations in the water, but its not a perfect seal, o2 can still get in, c02 can still get out, just keep agitation good and u'll be just fine

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, after reading lots of Barr's experiences with wet/dry filters, I pretty much came to the conclusion that off-gassing of Co2 is, if nothing else, over emphasized.

Mother nature was kind to us, making Co2 concentration and Oxegyn concentration in water not prevent each other

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Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
i run a wet/dry filter so everyone assumes i waste tons and tons of c02

it adds more than neccessary amounts of oxygen to the water, and when sealed in certain areas prevents excessive c02 burnoff

the lid will hold back some c02 thus increasing concentrations in the water, but its not a perfect seal, o2 can still get in, c02 can still get out, just keep agitation good and u'll be just fine
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by larcat View Post
Yeah, after reading lots of Barr's experiences with wet/dry filters, I pretty much came to the conclusion that off-gassing of Co2 is, if nothing else, over emphasized.
Very true. All it takes to compensate for any CO2 loss is tweaking the needle valve.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 07:46 PM
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Well from just recent experience with pressurized Co2 in the fluval edge 6g, I just added the Co2 tube into the propeller which is at maximum GPH and it doesn't seem to affect PPM that bad (i'm about 1-2 BPS on bubble counter). with maximum GPH output it does a number to agitating the surface of the water (pushing tons of air bubbles into the water).

with "good oxygen" in a closed top - If you have good Co2 with some healthy plants, you should be putting out some pure oxygen just from the photosynthesis.

I have small bubblets all over my top glass now that i added Co2 to my system and my Betta (which is kind-of the true test) will gulp those little guys all day long instead of the small hole opening.

Last edited by Vermino; 08-03-2012 at 07:47 PM. Reason: more info
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 07:54 PM
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I think is all about surface agitation. I believe that suffocation is because if low o2 levels to start and them with the presence of co2 is not enough.

There is a good read on the topic (I share this a lot because is awesome):

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php?t=10282

This is how I do it for a high end shrimp tank:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183530

Hope this helps!


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 07:55 PM
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plants produce a minimal amount of oxygen to a tank, maybe adding 2-3 ppm in full swing.. this is with lots of plants and lots of light

most people don' grow enough of a forrest to see real oxygen benefits, and oxygen dissolves 20 twice less easily than carbon. all those little pure oxygen bubbles on plants usually rise straigh to the surface

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
plants produce a minimal amount of oxygen to a tank, maybe adding 2-3 ppm in full swing.. this is with lots of plants and lots of light

most people don' grow enough of a forrest to see real oxygen benefits, and oxygen dissolves 20 twice less easily than carbon. all those little pure oxygen bubbles on plants usually rise straigh to the surface

Plus all the microbial processes that consume o2. Google "BOD", biological oxygen demand.


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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 08:26 PM
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good tank maintenance prevents this

A LOT of people look at tank maintenance as wotk, even at times i have found myself thinkign the same things
but SLOW down, take it easy, turn on some music enjoy some form of recreation, and change water, remove leaves, trim, clean filters, scrub tubing, ETC these practices lower BOD and reduce the occurance of algae and future problems. its taken forever for me to get that. i've always enjoying cleaning my tanks, but im more methodical now. i enjoy it more because i et more out of my tanks. less fighting, more sitting, watching, and planning my next scape attempt

for instance every morning now, while im feeding my fish, dosing my water, i now take 30 extra seconds and grab the leaves that have floated in front of my overflow weir and pull them off. one less thing i have to worry about

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
good tank maintenance prevents this

A LOT of people look at tank maintenance as wotk, even at times i have found myself thinkign the same things
but SLOW down, take it easy, turn on some music enjoy some form of recreation, and change water, remove leaves, trim, clean filters, scrub tubing, ETC these practices lower BOD and reduce the occurance of algae and future problems. its taken forever for me to get that. i've always enjoying cleaning my tanks, but im more methodical now. i enjoy it more because i et more out of my tanks. less fighting, more sitting, watching, and planning my next scape attempt

for instance every morning now, while im feeding my fish, dosing my water, i now take 30 extra seconds and grab the leaves that have floated in front of my overflow weir and pull them off. one less thing i have to worry about
Yeah! I use chopsticks to add extra patience exercise, my wife gives me a weird loving look tho.. Lol!


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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
plants produce a minimal amount of oxygen to a tank, maybe adding 2-3 ppm in full swing.. this is with lots of plants and lots of light

most people don' grow enough of a forrest to see real oxygen benefits, and oxygen dissolves 20 twice less easily than carbon. all those little pure oxygen bubbles on plants usually rise straigh to the surface
When you are seeing the bubbles the water is saturated, and a little is a lot with oxygen. That 2-3ppm is all it takes to saturate the water if you have good gas exchange. It's good if you can get to that point at around 11-12 ppm and even without the plants you can get to 7-9ppm pretty easily.

To say "maybe adding 2-3ppm" is a bit misleading. Going from no agitation to lots can take you from 5-6ppm or so to 7-8ppm or so. Get an overflow/ sump and you can sqeak out a few more
ppm. That last 2-3 from the plants is a huge amount when saturation is 11-12.5ppm.

That extra 4-6ppm is all it take to go from gassing the fish at 30ppm of co2 to over 80ppm.


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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-2012, 01:51 AM
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right, im just saying they add 2-3 ppm.. without good flow or agitation, that's NOT a lot. 3 is when a lot of fish start loosing motor function

my point was, don't rely solely on plants
more important the best way to get oxygen is surface area of water to air contact, but i was in a hurry and did not think my response through thoroughly. life happens
yes i have a wet/dry for that reason

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