Is less C02 okay? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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Is less C02 okay?

It seems that most folks here that run pressurized c02 like to keep it as high as they can without negatively effecting their fish. I hear alot of people asking for help with their algae/plant problems and often the answer is to up the c02.

I have a 75 gallon tank that I just got up and running again about a month ago. I've got pressurized c02, 130 watts pc light fixture, and dose EI. I leave the c02 running 24/7. I have been bumping up the c02 every couple of days up until today when I found my fish all gasping at the surface, and a dead shrimp. Instead of trying to find that max point of c02 saturation before it effects fish, can I just leave it at half throttle and not push it? Is a little c02 better than none? My goal is healthy plants that grow faster than el natural, but I'm not looking to set any speed records. I would like to be far from that point of harming livestock. I am growing dwarf hair grass, amazon sword, and java moss. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 03:52 AM
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Many folks simply watch the plant's response, not just the fish alone...........and also algae's response to change in CO2.

CO2 will have an optima for each individual tank that is different.
Yes, there is an upper range where all plants do very well and as you add more and more, this becomes apparent. But for other tanks and fish, filter systems, circulation etc...........this is often not practical due to the fish/shrimp etc.

Also, less light= less CO2 demand. This is clear in Tropica's CO2 and Light article. So if you promote LESS CO2, then promote less light, then.......you can logically suggest less ferts since demand and growth are reduced.

It's also easier to manage a tank with lower light vs high for the CO2 wiggle room alone.

But people think more light is always better.




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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 04:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the good info. According to Hoppy's light chart, my 130 watt pc fixture puts me in the low light category. I'll back the c02 down to where it was a couple of days ago and keep an eye on things.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 04:35 AM
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That chart doesn't work on power compact fixtures but it is low light for a tank that size but CO2 will still be a good benifit and a constant rate of delivery is important once you find your setting.


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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesmack View Post
c02
Not to be anal, but the circle is "O" Oxygen. Not "zero", as in, negating the entire equation.


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bitFUUL View Post
Not to be anal, but the circle is "O" Oxygen. Not "zero", as in, negating the entire equation.
DOH. Maybe that's why I gassed my fish. I'm using the wrong stuff:P
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 05:25 AM
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If your regulator setup doesn't shut off your CO2 automatically each night, then you're better off toning the diffusion down a bit. During your lighting periods, your CO2 is helping the plants as they go through photosynthesis (they release oxygen). But at night, your plants release CO2; and if you are still injecting CO2 in your tank, you will have fauna issues.


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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 05:27 AM
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I have medium light.

I gauge the co2 input by plant/algae response. I keep cardinias so I can't go all the way. If I had just fish I will just gas it all the way To rule out that factor. Then I would only focus on plant deficiencies. But again, with only fish I would use EI levels to rule out nutrients.

Keep in mind that bubbles per second are a very specific-of-that-one tank measure. You cannot use per say 3 bps because somebody else does good with 3bps. Your bubbles may be different size and your distribution different therefore a totally different amount of co2 in the water.

As tom taught me, look at the tank to inject co2. You can see lush new growth in a few days.
I tried measuring co2, it's nearly impossible and absolutely inaccurate to me.
My trick? Took daily or every other day FTS pics while playing with co2 and compare them to get the idea more clear.


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A heavily planted shrimp tank is possible!
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Last edited by pejerrey; 07-11-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitFUUL View Post
If your regulator setup doesn't shut off your CO2 automatically each night, then you're better off toning the diffusion down a bit. During your lighting periods, your CO2 is helping the plants as they go through photosynthesis (they release oxygen). But at night, your plants release CO2; and if you are still injecting CO2 in your tank, you will have fauna issues.
If you are not trying to maximize the amount of CO2 in the water, you don't need to worry as much about running CO2 at night. Consider that most of the CO2 we inject just exits the tank at the water surface, with only a small amount used by the plants. So, if the plants stop using it, the amount left in the water just goes up a small amount. It is when you run the CO2 level right up to where the fish start showing distress that the small increase at night can be fatal to the fish.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bitFUUL View Post
If your regulator setup doesn't shut off your CO2 automatically each night, But at night, your plants release CO2; and if you are still injecting CO2 in your tank, you will have fauna issues.
Not necessarily true.

Btw. Many lakes around the world are super-saturated with co2.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=153685
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-13-2012, 02:27 AM
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Not necessarily true.

Btw. Many lakes around the world are super-saturated with co2.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=153685
If a lake is truly supersaturated with CO2 I don't believe any fish, shrimp, snail, etc. can live in it. Water saturated with CO2 has about 1600 ppm of CO2 in it. Supersaturated water would have even more. Compare that to the 40-50 ppm we consider to be near the maximum that fish can live with.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-13-2012, 06:19 AM
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DOH. Maybe that's why I gassed my fish. I'm using the wrong stuff:P
haha




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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-13-2012, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pejerrey View Post
I have medium light.

I gauge the co2 input by plant/algae response. I keep cardinias so I can't go all the way. If I had just fish I will just gas it all the way To rule out that factor. Then I would only focus on plant deficiencies. But again, with only fish I would use EI levels to rule out nutrients.

Keep in mind that bubbles per second are a very specific-of-that-one tank measure. You cannot use per say 3 bps because somebody else does good with 3bps. Your bubbles may be different size and your distribution different therefore a totally different amount of co2 in the water.

As tom taught me, look at the tank to inject co2. You can see lush new growth in a few days.
I tried measuring co2, it's nearly impossible and absolutely inaccurate to me.
My trick? Took daily or every other day FTS pics while playing with co2 and compare them to get the idea more clear.
Experience cannot be read about, it's done by doing.
This is the lesson best learned well.
The slow careful adjustment will teach far more and reduce risk.
Then when you see it in the future, you will know.

Pejerrey did this and walked the path, plenty of talkers around though It's well worth doing this and see it for yourself, do not take my word for it, prove it to yourself.




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-13-2012, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Not necessarily true.

Btw. Many lakes around the world are super-saturated with co2.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=153685
O2 is also very high in those systems also, well over 8ppm.




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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-13-2012, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
If a lake is truly supersaturated with CO2 I don't believe any fish, shrimp, snail, etc. can live in it. Water saturated with CO2 has about 1600 ppm of CO2 in it. Supersaturated water would have even more. Compare that to the 40-50 ppm we consider to be near the maximum that fish can live with.
"Super saturated" with respect to ambient conditions with the atmosphere(equilibrated with the atmosphere).

So above 100% ambient.

Similarly, O2 is super saturated with respect to ambient conditions as well.

Both are temp dependent, all gases in fact are temp dependent with respect to ambient saturation values, colder water holds more gas in solution and warmer water less. Colder water slows plant growth metabolism down and many fish species as well.




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