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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-31-2005, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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stopped dosing Po4

A few weeks back I noticed my phosphate level was too high using EI method of dosing. Actually I lowered the amounts of everything I was dosing using EI method and started to test more to get a better idea of what my tank needs instead of basing the amounts on what others dose in their similar size tank. I quit using Kpo4 all together. In a 58g tank I'm down to dosing 1/8tsp kNo3, 1/8tsp K+, day 1. 8ml csm +B day two and so on to a 50% weekly w/c. This gives me test readings of No3=10-20, Po4=2-3 when I was getting up to a 5 reading (salifert kit).

My w/c water is RODI filtered then topped off with tap water to get the correct KH. I appologize I'm unprepared with the test readings of the tap water before It goes in but I'm assuming all the phosphates are coming from the tap water.

I know I've read a number of you dont dose Kno3 because you feed so much but is it normal to already have such a high Po4 level before dosing?

The only fish in the tank are 14 corydoras, 6 oto, and shrimp. I feed on average 6 Hikari sinking bottom feeder pellets a day and sometimes bloodworms. Could excess phosphates be coming from my feeding regime?

Should I just let it go and know that my tap water is taking care of dosing the Po4?

ernest

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-31-2005, 06:28 PM
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I dose kno3 and most others do too. However it 10-20ppm is a good level, so whatever you do to get that, keep it up

It's phosphates (po4) that come from wasted food, so maybe that's what you're thinking is not dosed because of feeding? Your phosphates should be between 0.5 to 1ppm. Don't dose for a while, test it now and then, but you should probably be fine. Test your tap water also, so that you know how much po4 is getting in from the water changes, and how much must be from other sources.

Plants are gone, but my 33gal and I are back after a long hiatus.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2005, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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right, I may have read someones post wrong about not dosing Kno3 because of feeding heavy.

I will continue not dosing kpo4 then and see where it puts me week to week.

thanks

ernest

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2005, 02:28 AM
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Mine's a newish 90 gallon so things are evolving. I also have just about knocked off dosing PO4 and KNO3 except on water change day and maybe once more during the week, if test show the need. I think the general rules need to state that everyone's fish load and plant load/types of plants vary tremendously, so we should test awhile to see where things are at. Not to mention the difference in lights and WPG involved.

After I practically quit dosing, my fert levels on NO3 and PO4 are still arriving at 10-20ppm NO3 and 1 to 2 ppm PO4 from aggressively feeding my fish. I also cut back to 5 to 7 ml on micros and wattage power of light (not time period). All this is helping control the Algae and bringing things in balance. But it seems like alchemy some of the time.





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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2005, 04:07 AM
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Aquatic Alchemy, right Bob? Sounds like a book title or something...so if it's not already copyrighted, I just did.

If there's something you can stop dosing on, more power to you. It would be nice to stop dosing on my 10gal, but my tap doesn't supply much in the way of NO3/PO4, and there's only one cherry shrimp and one false siamensis. I drop in half an algae wafer every couple days, so feeding and waste aren't contributing to fertilization. Once my 85gal is established though, I may have to fork over the money for the LaMotte NO4 and PO4 test kits. With the fish load I plan on having in that tank, I may be able to cut some ferts.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2005, 12:53 PM
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How about the "Artistry of Aquatic Alchemy"? I too only dose the macros at water change time and notice that from day 1 to day 7 (next water change), it remains fairly steady. I have tested for nitrates and phosphates and find a slight decrease, but not enough to matter. I start with NO3 at around 15-20 and PO4 at around 3-4 (a lot of folks would say this is high, but it works for me!). By week's end the NO3 go to 10-15, the PO4 to 2-3. The micros I do daily. I feed my fish daily and do have a decent load of them - with guppies, it's impossible not to have too many.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2005, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert H
The micros I do daily.
Hey Bert, (my best Ernie impression ) If your daily dosing micros how much are we talking about and what size tank. I've never really given much time to looking into how much I benifit from the amount I dose.

1 TBSP csm+B to 250ml distilled water, 8ml 3x a week in a 58g with 175w MH

How much do you dose of what trace and what are the effects your seeing of dosing daily?

ernest

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2005, 07:07 PM
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To be honest with you, I don't do it via any controlled way that allows me to say if I don't do this, this will happen... Except if I change any of this routine, the wendtii makes like a snowman in the middle of summer. All I can say is that what I grow does well. (C. helferi, B. aubertii, B. japonica, R. indica, E. triandra, H. micranthemoides, M. umbrusom, A. nana, A. nana petite, C. wendtii, B. caroliniana, M. mattagrossense, H. palustris, Lobelia). I have some issues with A. reinickii and curling leaves which I think I am correcting by adding Mg. BUT I CAN'T GROW LUDWIGIAS WORTH A DAMN!! No matter which Lud I try, it will eventually die.

These numbers are a combination of advice and looking at what others do/have done:
50 gal tank with 126W lighting: Flourish: 2.5ml; Flourish iron 1ml
29 gal tank with 75W lighting: Flourish: 2ml; Flourish iron: 0.75ml
10 gal tanks with 26W lighting: Flourish: .75ml; Flourish iron: 0.25ml
They are added daily except on the day I do the water changes when I dose the macros.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 01:13 AM
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Hey Bert, isn't the leaf curl from Calcium deficiency, not Mg? I'm not sure, just recollecting as I have been working on with this issue. I'm going to research this a bit more. BTW, My A reineckii loves (loved, just took it out my 26 bow) growing in flourite.Grew like a weed! Kind of just hanging around in the new Eco. Who knows? bob





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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-02-2005, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
isn't the leaf curl from Calcium deficiency, not Mg?
Not in my case. I have gh of 12 and most of it comes from Ca. There's an interesting thread going on on apc here dealing with Alternathera problems. For me, at least for the time being, Mg addition is doing the trick.

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Last edited by Bert H; 06-02-2005 at 01:55 PM.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-05-2005, 08:42 PM
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Bert, the Lugwigia is a common weed. I grew it fine there.
It melts when poor CO2, or not enough KNO3 is dosed.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 12:34 PM
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In Brooklyn my PO4 levels regularly exceed 3 ppm right out of the tap. It's about the only thing outlandish I notice about our water.

Since someone brought up nutrient sponges/resins... and my glosso tank is taking off (not without some staghorn issues at first)... is this something I should do instead of simply upping NO3 to the 16:1 ratio?

I'd rather not have a PO4 sponge AND a can of KH2PO4. Then again 60 ppm NO3 is something I'd not like to maintain once I bring the barbs back in. What say those in the know?
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert H
To be honest with you, I don't do it via any controlled way that allows me to say if I don't do this, this will happen... Except if I change any of this routine, the wendtii makes like a snowman in the middle of summer. All I can say is that what I grow does well. (C. helferi, B. aubertii, B. japonica, R. indica, E. triandra, H. micranthemoides, M. umbrusom, A. nana, A. nana petite, C. wendtii, B. caroliniana, M. mattagrossense, H. palustris, Lobelia). I have some issues with A. reinickii and curling leaves which I think I am correcting by adding Mg. BUT I CAN'T GROW LUDWIGIAS WORTH A DAMN!! No matter which Lud I try, it will eventually die.

These numbers are a combination of advice and looking at what others do/have done:
50 gal tank with 126W lighting: Flourish: 2.5ml; Flourish iron 1ml
29 gal tank with 75W lighting: Flourish: 2ml; Flourish iron: 0.75ml
10 gal tanks with 26W lighting: Flourish: .75ml; Flourish iron: 0.25ml
They are added daily except on the day I do the water changes when I dose the macros.
Haha, it's a weed locally for you Bert:-)
You saw mine growing well.

Regards,
Tom Barr



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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 10:52 PM
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e.lark- my phosphate levels are close to yours, 4-5ppm. I dont see any reason why I should cut back on it. My plants are growing well- they look healthy and my fish dont seem to care either.

I never tested the phosphates with a test kit- only fert calculators. Thats why I started dosing via EI. I hate testing water.

I guess what I'm asking is- was there somthing that happened in your tank that lead to believe that you should cut back on the po4?


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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-26-2005, 08:10 AM
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FYI, plants respond fairly well to PO4 limitation , you will end up with Green spot algae more and less NO3 uptake rate etc(which measn less biomass growth).

Otherwise PO4 in excess is fair wide ranging as you can see.
As long as their is enough t prevent limitation, folks are fine.

Tap often adds a lot, sometime none though.
Lower light tanks can rely more on fish waste, but most fish foods etc are too heavy in N and little on PO4.


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