Raising kh/ph without the mess with....? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-14-2005, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
cake fan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtl, Cda
Posts: 164
Raising kh/ph without the mess with....?

I've been made aware (thx ) that I need to raise my kh from 2.0 to at 4kh (ph 6.6 - 6.4) to keep my ph from crashing.

I don't really want to play around with baking soda everyday so I'm wondering if one of the following will maintain it

1) add some Caribea Sea Aragonite sand to the AC150 (under the sponge?)

2) add sea shells instead

Will either of those raise my kh/ph slowly and safely if added? If so should it be added all at once to the filter or a little every day? Any idea how much of either?
cake fan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-14-2005, 11:02 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Marc's Avatar
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 1,197
Im not sure what you mean about messing with baking soda everyday but i only need to use it once a week. 1/2 tspn for 25 gals for water brings mine to 4 dkh. Its very easy and cheap.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marc is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-14-2005, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
cake fan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtl, Cda
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Im not sure what you mean about messing with baking soda everyday but i only need to use it once a week. 1/2 tspn for 25 gals for water brings mine to 4 dkh. Its very easy and cheap.
You only dose once a week but would that be the norm? If you waters abilities to buffer were lower wouldn't you have to dose more often? How did you determine how often and how much to dose?

I'm not saying that my waters abilities to buffer are good or bad because I've only had my co2 running since Sunday so I really don't have much background.

I have both the aragonite sand and sea shells sitting around (as well as baking soda) so cost is not my concern because any of the solutions would be fine, I'd just rather go with the simplest method.

I'd rather just add something that will monitor/maintain my kh/ph higher without much messing around (determining when to dose/how much etc) and if I can do that with something sitting around doing nothing, great

I'm new to planted tanks so please take this as me asking questions (and not being rude) so correct/suggest away.
cake fan is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-14-2005, 11:45 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Spar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,018
generally at 4dKH you have enough buffering capacity that you wont notice KH falling significantly over time. that means that you will only need to dose after water changes to bring your KH back to 4. it really is as easy as it sounds which is nice if you have soft tap water or use RO. my tap water is 1dKH, so i live by baking soda.

1tp per 50g's brings KH up 1dKH, just as FYI.

Cliff
450g Planted Discus Tank - Work in Process!
Spar is online now  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
cake fan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtl, Cda
Posts: 164
So dosing baking soda is good till your next waterchange, no matter what?
I can only raise the kh by .4 daily till I reach to target range so how much would I use daily (tsp) till it was raised (10gal)? I guess it seems easy if you've used it but from where I'm sitting it's far from it

Aragonite / sea shells don't raise kh/ph?

I have an r/o unit (2 step) & I have been using the water from the first discharge along with some tap water in the tank.
cake fan is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 12:46 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Rex Grigg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (65/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Portland Orygun
Posts: 9,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by cake fan
So dosing baking soda is good till your next waterchange, no matter what?
I can only raise the kh by .4 daily till I reach to target range so how much would I use daily (tsp) till it was raised (10gal)? I guess it seems easy if you've used it but from where I'm sitting it's far from it

Aragonite / sea shells don't raise kh/ph?

I have an r/o unit (2 step) & I have been using the water from the first discharge along with some tap water in the tank.

Yeah they both raise pH and kH and gH. And you have no control at all on how fast or even how much. Why are you using any RO water at all? You can drink it I assume?
Rex Grigg is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 01:40 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Marc's Avatar
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 1,197
[QUOTE=cake fan]So dosing baking soda is good till your next waterchange, no matter what?
[QUOTE]
yeah its been that easy for me. I rarely test my kh now. I do test once in a while to make sure nothing has changed in my tap water. Basically add baking soda in small amounts untill you reach your target point. Just remember how much you add and just add that same amount at each water change. Most people Change their water 50% once a week. Once you get comfortable- its very easy.

Spar- I think you helped me out last time with my KH issues. If that was you thanks again!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marc is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
cake fan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtl, Cda
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
Yeah they both raise pH and kH and gH. And you have no control at all on how fast or even how much. Why are you using any RO water at all? You can drink it I assume?
So they will but not predictable. I'm using r/o water (mixing with tap) because the first filter declorinates (& removes some other nasties but not actual r/o till it goes through the second filter) and I was under the impression that clorine was bad.

My tap water drinkable?..hmm yes I guess but it isn't palatable by any means. It has a heavy yucky metallic taste (sorry I can't really describe it) and I NEVER drink out of the tap. I first boil ALL drinking water and run it through a Brita (the biggg one) filter. Call me paranoid but there are far too many "Boil Water Alerts" especially this time of year and when weighing in the factors it's not really a pain to do.

The problem with baking soda is that you can't really take 1kh / 50 g = 1dkh and turn that into a dose for a 10gal tank at the recommended increase of .4 /kh /day without getting into smaller measurements than tsp and then I'm getting all confussed........anyone have an answer to what the daily dose of baking soda for a 10gal tank to increase only .4/kh daily should be?

PS> Marc do you add the b.s. to the water BEFORE changing OR after changing? I would imagine before and make sure that it's the same but then again I'm not expert at this as you can tell LOL

THANKS to all for helping me with this btw it's greatly appreciated.
cake fan is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 03:13 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Betowess's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Skagit County, Washington State
Posts: 3,199
Try adding a little less than a 1/4 teaspoon of Baking Soda per 10 gallons to the change water before putting in the fish tank. Double check your KH before you put it in and then check the tank's KH a little after Check your KH every day or twice a day for a few days and see where you are at. Then you can adjust the dose to your weekly water change. After a couple of days of tests, you won't have to do it except when ever you want to double check everything... HTH.bob





Three Tanks...Eheim 2128 & XP3-90G, Eheim 2128-65G, Eheim 2232-25G.... Tek 4x54 watt T5-90G, Aqualight 96watt PC 65G low tech, 65 watt Aqualight-25G.... Hydors-90G & 65G ... Flourite in 90, 65, & 25 Gallons, .... Auto Water Change/Auto dosing on 90 & 65 gallon..... AGA member......
Betowess is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 03:23 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Spar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,018
you dont necessarily have to stick to any set standard of a per/day dosing of b.s. until you reach your target level. the only reason you would want to go slow is so that pH doesnt jump up so quickly (which is basically instantly when adding baking soda). you could actually just sprinkle a little in a pinch at a time if you needed to. then just re-measure your KH level after each time until it hits ~4 over a few day period of time.

ths issue with seashells (crushed coral) is that the KH increases as the water rushes against it causing erosion of the shells/coral (i.e. basically disolving over time), thus adding the Mg and Ca to the water in a disolved form. however, the erosion is obviously slow which means KH rises over a period of time rather than instantly as b.s. does. can take anywhere between 1-4 days to get your average KH effect from the shells. and then of course doing a water change starts it all over again. eventually you would even need to change it out since it has disolved so much over time. i ended up taking the crushed coral out of my setup because my KH would vary between 5.5 and 7 before I did my next weekly water change.. with pressurized co2 it makes for quite a increase in pH along with it and then a sudden decrease in pH after the waterchange. plus, the fish are always readjusting to a new pH level.

as for "when" to add the b.s., it may be easier to add it after, but it is definately safer to add it before. I choose easier but I have been doing this for a while now. just get to know how much b.s. it takes to raise your water to 4 after a certain % water change and it is all part of the normal process of water changes after that.

Cliff
450g Planted Discus Tank - Work in Process!
Spar is online now  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 03:26 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
cake fan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtl, Cda
Posts: 164
So I should plan a 50% waterchange with slightly less than 1/4 tsp of bs and test it before add the waterchange. But what am I looking for in *Double check your KH before you put it in* if it is within the acceptable +.4 /kh range? OR because it's a 50% waterchange should it(waterchange) read ..?

And *Check your KH every day or twice a day for a few days and see where you are at* should I continue doing waterchanges everyday to up the kh?OR just up it weekly till I get to the target 4kh?

Sorry for getting nit-picky but I'd rather get it right before doing it.
cake fan is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 03:37 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Spar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,018
maybe it will help in steps:

1) get your current KH to 4.0 (without doing any water changes in the meantime). Do this by gradually adding b.s. to the water over a couple day period of time.

2) when doing a 50% water change, either: a) bring the water you will be using in the waterchange to 4.0, instantly (i.e. if you are doing a 5g water change of 0dKH RO water, you will add 4/10 teaspoons of b.s. right then, mix it in, and then dump into the tank), or b) fill up the tank with the water, and then add in the 4/10 teaspoon into the tank.

fyi, the 4/10 teaspoon is calculated as 1/10th teaspoon to raise KH by 1dKH for 5g's. You need to rasie the dKH by 4, so 4 x 1/10 = 4/10t. This is also assuming that you are using 0dKH water (i.e. RO, or very very soft tap water).

Don't worry about being a little off from 4.0. really anywhere between 3.5 and 4.5 is where you need to be aiming. it is better to just be consistent anyway.

edit>> you do have a 10g tank right? thought I read that in the posts, but cant find it now... what size tank is it?

Cliff
450g Planted Discus Tank - Work in Process!
Spar is online now  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 06:45 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Marc's Avatar
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 1,197
I add it just like Spar. I change my water. Fill tank. Then add B.S. Since my tank water is already at 4dkh, adding it in all at once isnt a big deal. But for the first time add it slow.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marc is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-15-2005, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
cake fan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mtl, Cda
Posts: 164
Ok so starting today I'll sprinkle in a small amount of bs to the tank and do this daily till my water is up to 4. then do the waterchange. The amount I'm going to sprinkle in is going to be a small pinch considering the small u/m we are discussing (is this amount ok). Because this is the first time I'm going to be playing with this I'm going to add the bs to the intended waterchange before adding it to the system.

Thanks guys that was great. Yes it's a 10gal tank, I did put that in but I guess I didn't get specific sorry Thanks again.
cake fan is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-16-2005, 02:48 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Spar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,018
if you go to greg watsons store @ http://www.gregwatson.com/PlantAccessories.asp , he has some measuring spoons that go down to the 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 teaspoon sizes. may be worth looking into. a heaping 1/16 teaspoon is probably near 1/10. i am sure some math on one of those would lead you to 4/10 anyway. will make your measurings easier. may as well pick up some PMDD as well

glad we could help. and as I said before, once you get the hang of adding b.s., it really is quite easy and you wont have hte same headache as your first attempts give.

good luck with it all!

Cliff
450g Planted Discus Tank - Work in Process!
Spar is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome