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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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is this kno3 any good?

i found this.. maybe i was given the link from here im not sure but could i use this for my tank? i have csm+b on the way it should arrive in a couple weeks..

all i need is potassium nitrate, pottasium sulphate and magnesium sulphate

the kno3 i found is here... http://www.kno3.com/product.asp?itemid=4

can i use standard potash for potassium sulphate? im not sure as ive seen some brands named k2o and some brands k2so4 either way am i looking for something that is 0-0-* on the NPK rating, star being whatever the value say 43, if it were 43 how would i mix this into a dose? im prtty sure the 43 would be 43% k2so4/k2o so how do i equivilate that into PPM? i would also need to work out PPM of the kno3.. which as you can see is 99.9% pure...

then for the mgso4.. this is epsom salts right? i can proberly find this the same place as i got the potash from... (focus for the brits)

any help kindly appriciated as allways

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
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im wondering if these two products are good sources of mg and k

Mg - http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/produc...bc6672f2db5d59

K/k2so4/k2o? - http://www.gardenchemicals.co.uk/pdt...umchloride.htm

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 10:36 AM
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I use potash for potassium dosing. I got a 1kg box from B&Q for only a couple of pounds. On the back of the box, it states K in the form of water soluble K2O (somewhere in the region of 40 odd % - can't remember!)

That's the KNO3 I use also.... 99.9% is the purest form you can get.

For dosing, I just use Chuck Gadd's calculator and assume potash as K2SO4...... is this wrong? I think the % values are how much potassium is in the compound compared to total mass (other % will be the SO4 or O). Chuck's calculator accounts for this.

You can use KCL..... gram for gram, it provides a little more potassium than K2SO4, but we normally see potash/potassium oxide/potassium sulphate used as fertiliser.

MgSO4 is indeed epsom salt. You will probably find it in DIY/garden stores, but I know you can get it in boots and other health shops as it is used as a muscle relaxant.
It's only 1.49 for 500g at boots.... 500g epsom salts

HTH


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu
I use potash for potassium dosing. I got a 1kg box from B&Q for only a couple of pounds. On the back of the box, it states K in the form of water soluble K2O (somewhere in the region of 40 odd % - can't remember!)

For dosing, I just use Chuck Gadd's calculator and assume potash as K2SO4...... is this wrong?
When %K2O equivalent is reported (as in fertilizers), you can convert that to the equivalent % K2SO4 as follows:

(%K2O/94g/mol)*(1molK2SO4/1molK2O)*174g/mol = %K2SO4 equivalent.

With a %K2O below 54%, it is not pure K2SO4. However, if you are in the upper 40's the dosages from Chuck's calculator will only be a bit underdosed. If you want to correct for this error, divide by the percent K2SO4 equivalent as a decimal (for 88% K2SO4, divide by 0.88).

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Talking

thanks stu... i was pretty sure i would find it at boots or something, glad theres someone on here on the same level..

ill send my mum up boots tomorow hehe. relieves mild constipation... i cant go and buy that i had a box of potash from focus but i gave it away for some daft reason.. is KCL the make that b&q sell?

seems like the KNO3 is the most expensive ingredient.

how much of the kno3 do you dose? and how do you mix it up.
are u useing plantex and do you mix it all up.
ide proberly prefere to dose everything seperate, coz itll proberly take a while to get used to it.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC
When %K2O equivalent is reported (as in fertilizers), you can convert that to the equivalent % K2SO4 as follows:

(%K2O/94g/mol)*(1molK2SO4/1molK2O)*174g/mol = %K2SO4 equivalent.

With a %K2O below 54%, it is not pure K2SO4. However, if you are in the upper 40's the dosages from Chuck's calculator will only be a bit underdosed. If you want to correct for this error, divide by the percent K2SO4 equivalent as a decimal (for 88% K2SO4, divide by 0.88).

Kevin
:crossyed: erm.. how about when i get the figures i pass them over to you to do the working out.. i wasent ever to good at maths

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-12-2005, 08:09 PM
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Thanks a lot Kevin for the useful info.

The potash from B&Q is in the form of Potassium Oxide (K2O).

Potassium nitrate does seem to be quite highly priced everywhere I've looked in the UK. I have found a couple of chemical sources where it is cheaper, but they have such limitations as minimum total order value etc, making the purchase a no go!

I haven't started dosing potassium nitrate regularly yet, but have tinkered a few times in my tanks.
I personally think making stock solutions is a chore and a pointless exercise. However, I also think that adding direct to the tank is risky in case it doesn't mix properly, so what I like to do is to measure out the amount I need as if I were dosing direct, then mix that with a little water taken from my tank, before pouring it in (usually into the path of the water flow to ensure sufficient mixing).

My fert plan consists of...
KNO3 for nitrates (already have)
K2O for potassium (already have)
KH2PO4 for phosphates (on it's way)
Seachem Flourish for micros (already have)


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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu
Thanks a lot Kevin for the useful info.

The potash from B&Q is in the form of Potassium Oxide (K2O).
No, it isn't K2O (you already said it is only 40-some percent). Fertilizers express the potassium content as "K2O equivalent" - in other words, how much K2O you would need to have the same amount of potassium. This is analogous to the way we express KH and GH (both are CaCO3 equivalent).

There are several types of potash: muriate of potash is KCl, caustic potash is KOH, there is also K2SO4 and K2Mg2(SO4)3 - usually it is the KCl form. Unless the ingredients are listed, it may not even be safe to assume the stuff in the bag consists of only one compound!

K2O is NOT a very stable compound - it readily absorbs water and reacts to form KOH - see MSDS
See this link for a definition of potash.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 04:51 AM Thread Starter
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ive been useing API Leaf zone up until now and the ingredients are..
Soluble Potash (K2O).........3.00%
Iron (Fe).........................0.10%
0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Derived From: Pottasium Sulphate and Iron EDTA

thats what it says exactly on the back.. so what does this mean if K2O isnt a good supply of K, are API pulling one on aquarists?

i generaly go for ferts that do have the content list as normaly if they do.. they list everything..
you can get pottasium chloride.. and pottasium sulphate both as different ferts.. KCL being named pottasium Chloride, and K2O named potash..

its tricky with garden ferts as generaly no one knows whats in them. this is confusing me lol

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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from what i can gather (bear in mind im half insomniac and its about 6:25am here) K is present in both potassium chloride (KCl) and potassium sulphate (k2so4) and potassium oxide (k2o)...

K binded with chlorine produces KCL
K in sulphate form produces... well the sulphate
K in oxide is the term for an dissolved amount of K in water or something????
without being in a sulpahte form, nor binded with chlorine so its safe... and more easily taken up by the plants?

either way i dont think that k2o isnt good for the tank..
if it isnt.. i want my money back from aquarium pharm hehe

ive dosed k2o from focus and it seemed to do nothing but good, no doubt the k2o i dosed is the same as what stu had... i think if we have to avoid anything.. its KCl, the potash i had also stated under potash.. potassium sulphate, on the back it said k2o...
shrugs

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC
No, it isn't K2O (you already said it is only 40-some percent). Fertilizers express the potassium content as "K2O equivalent" - in other words, how much K2O you would need to have the same amount of potassium. This is analogous to the way we express KH and GH (both are CaCO3 equivalent).

There are several types of potash: muriate of potash is KCl, caustic potash is KOH, there is also K2SO4 and K2Mg2(SO4)3 - usually it is the KCl form. Unless the ingredients are listed, it may not even be safe to assume the stuff in the bag consists of only one compound!
Oh I see, my mistake!

I no longer have the box as I transfered the contents to better containers, so I cannot check these things (Will have to check out the box at B&Q next time I'm there!).

Compulsion, you are not taking aboard what Kevin is saying.... the Potassium available in the API mix, is in the form of Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4), but is stated in the list as K2O equivalent for reference.
(btw, I used to use API Leaf Zone, but am now using Seachem Flourish)

Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsion
from what i can gather (bear in mind im half insomniac and its about 6:25am here) K is present in both potassium chloride (KCl) and potassium sulphate (k2so4) and potassium oxide (k2o)...

K binded with chlorine produces KCL
K in sulphate form produces... well the sulphate
K in oxide is the term for an dissolved amount of K in water or something????
without being in a sulpahte form, nor binded with chlorine so its safe... and more easily taken up by the plants?

either way i dont think that k2o isnt good for the tank..
K is the chemical symbol for potassium. KCL (potassium chloride), K2SO4 (potassium sulphate) and K20 (potassium oxide) are compounds containing potassium and other substances (Chlorine in KCL, Sulphur and Oxygen in K2SO4, Oxygen in K2O)

K2O is unstable (if you like; dangerous) and so you will not find it available commonly as fertiliser, but you will see it quoted on the back of fertilisers as a reference "standard" by which all forms of potassium compounds can be quantified against.


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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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now i follow, but what does this mean about your potash that your useing?

i might pop up b&q tomorow and get a box if its no good it can go on the garden but that way we can then figure out if its good or not.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsion
...but what does this mean about your potash that your useing?
Nothing different really. It's fine to use.... it might not be the purest form of a potassium compound, but it will work.

Another reason why I like to mix the solution out of the tank, is that there are a few brown flakes and larger white chunks in the mix that do not seem to dissolve, so I can avoid adding these to my tank. I guess that's the price you pay for a cheaper range of fertilisers, and not the pure chemicals.


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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 03:07 AM
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50 lbs of KNO3 runs under $20. You just have to know where to live and where to shop.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
50 lbs of KNO3 runs under $20. You just have to know where to live and where to shop.
..and have the right contacts.

Well I can't really change where I live, so do you have any suggestions on where I should "shop"?


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