Oh smart people of planted tank, help me with my EI math - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-16-2011, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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Oh smart people of planted tank, help me with my EI math

Ok so... I recently bought some ferts for EI dosing.. and cause I live in canada, soooooo because apparently canadians are scared of explosives they refused to sell me KNO3 in dry form as per I could make it into a bomb.

So I now have solution of 500g into 2L of water and am trying to figure out the math of how much a 1/16th dose of dry KNO3 would be equivalent to of this solution.

So I whipped out the old chemistry brain and tried to figure out what that would be equivalent to by using the density of KNO3 at 2.109g/cm3 and so on and so forth.. I have taken a picture of my math I will include as it's easier to explain.

If I did this right, I can use that same kinda math to make solutions of my other ferts and just use some syringes and needles from work to draw up and dose solutions(I'd like to have separate bottles and not mix them), but I'm not sure if I did it right in the first place sooooo I'd like y'all to check haha cause it's been a while since I did this type of math.

Just to double check, if I then mix my other ferts into water, the total volume of liquid will not change because it will be a solution, correct, as opposed to a mixture in which case the volume WOULD change. For example, if I mix 100g of KSO4 into 500cc of water, the total volume after the KSO4 is dissolved is still 500cc, correct?

Man, I can get 100% in advanced bio and still struggle through chem haha.



ALLLLSOOOOO... In tom barr's original EI post on.. whatever forum he posted it, he listed a gh booster (I skipped cause our tapwater is moderate-hard hardness), KNO3, KSO4, and KH2PO4 along w/ trace elements. So I went and bought all those, got home, and realized in the EI dosing there is no KSO4?? Is that just in case I don't want to raise no3 but still need to dose K? Allllso... if I mix up solutions of all of the ferts, do I need to refrigerate any of the solutions?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 01:07 AM
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converting volume to weight is a only a guess-ta-mation. You're calculating a solid block of kno3. They're in powdered or granule form. That changes the measurements/density.

I'm not sure of your numbers. There an online calculator at http://calc.petalphile.com/, or my app on the iphone/ipod http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/miste...446259633?mt=8, and http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...fertilator.php


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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 01:54 AM
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You can try this. 1/4 tsp of KNO3 from a 250ml solution is equal to 20ml. Every of that 20ml of KNO3 would rise your nitrate level by 11 ppm to 12ppm in a 20g of body of water. Roughly, every ml of your solution should rise your nitrate level by .5+ ppm in every gallon of water, according to the EI dosing and assuming you are adding only 1 tablespoon of KNO3 into a 250ml of water. Of course, your own 2l KNO3 solution may exceed the 1 tablespoon for every 250ml proportion.

I assume you have a nitrate test kit? Fill a bucket of water up to 1g and making sure the tap water has no nitrate. Then, you add 1ml of that KNO3 solution into that bucket of water. Measure the nitrate level. If your level is more than 1ppm, you have to add a bit less NO3 that what the EI recommends it. If you need to add more than 1ml of that KNO3 solution to rise your nitrate level to 1ppm, you may need to increase your EI NO3 dosage.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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Man I seem to be in a pickle here haha
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Does anyone have an accurate scale they could weigh out 1 tablespoon of their powdered or ground up kno3 for me? Probably all comes as the same in raw form that we buy it dry and then I can figure out the concentration from that... Maybe haha

I will do some testing with my nitrate kit tomorrow on my day off
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarabash View Post
Does anyone have an accurate scale they could weigh out 1 tablespoon of their powdered or ground up kno3 for me? Probably all comes as the same in raw form that we buy it dry and then I can figure out the concentration from that... Maybe haha

I will do some testing with my nitrate kit tomorrow on my day off
This may help you:

http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm

Is 16.8g for every 1 tablespoon of KNO3.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 03:01 PM
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Wouldn't consider myself smart, but I don't quite follow why this is so hard.

You have 500g dissolved in 2l.
There are about 5.6g dry KNO3 in a teaspoon.
That means you have 500/5.6 = 89 tsp's of dry KNO3 in your 2l.
Therefore, 2000ml/89 tsp = 22.4 ml of your solution equal one tsp of dry KNO3.

So, to dose 1/16th of a tsp you take a syringe and measure 22.4/16 = 1.4 ml.

Or?


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarabash View Post
Does anyone have an accurate scale they could weigh out 1 tablespoon of their powdered or ground up kno3 for me?
measurements have already been done.. Check out the chart on APC's calculator I showed you.


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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 03:59 PM
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making this way to complicated. Forget about teaspoons etc. You want to dose approximately 10 mg/liter. If you have a 100 liter tank you want to add 1000 mg (1 gram of kno3) or 10mg X 100 liters. Your solution is 500g per 2 l or 500,000 mg per 2000 ml or 250 mg per ml. 1000 mg is 4 ml of your solution. Follow?

Dave

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergreen View Post
measurements have already been done.. Check out the chart on APC's calculator I showed you.

Thanks for that, I didn't really have time to look through stuff online today at work before I posted. I think I figured it out along with the rexgrigg stuff... I think. I will test it out on some 5g buckets of water tomorrow before dosing into my tank

I love this forum <3

ANd yes, I have a knack for overcomplicating things terribly ahha
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarabash View Post
(1)Does anyone have an accurate scale they could weigh out 1 tablespoon of their powdered or ground up kno3 for me?

(2)I will do some testing with my nitrate kit tomorrow on my day off
(1) 1tblsp = 16.8g... 1/16 tsp = 0.35g

(2)
without calibration, you're assuming that test kit is accurate. no way to come to a definite conclusion.

EDIT:
molecular mass...
k=19
n=7
o=8

kno3 = k(19) + n(7) +o(8) +o(8) +o(8) = 50
no3 = n(7) +o(8) +o(8) +o(8) = 31

so...
no3 =31/50 or 62% of kno3

62% of 1/16tsp = .217g

in a 5gal that comes to about 11.47mg/l or ppm no3 per dose.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-17-2011, 07:45 PM
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EI was originally more a simplification of liquid dosing methods like PMDD.
Since dry dosing seemed less intimidating, many liked adding say 1/4 tsp 3x a week of KNO3 to a 20 gal etc.......

But...today, all that is easy with the dosign cals and Wet's modeling cal is also good if you like to predict different % water changes, dosing routines etc.

Basically EI is a simple starting point to make nutrients independent, you can tweak from there. Add 3-4 things 3x a week etc.......water change, repeat.

About as simple as it's going to get.




Regards,
Tom Barr
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