Dosing EI daily...reduce dosage per day.. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2011, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Dosing EI daily...reduce dosage per day..

I am trying to dose EI daily with reduced dosage, but totaling about the same amount of fert as if I only dose 3x per week. I am trying to keep my shrimps (few Amanos and 20+ cherry shrimps) alive. Hopefully, my water becomes good enough to "restock" more Amanos. They don't like nitrate as far as I can tell, certainly excessive trace dosage can be bad for them. Possibility copper in the trace elements? Do plants uptake less nitrate if less of nitrate concentration in the water column? I am trying to keep nitrate around 10+ ppm per day. Before, is around 20+ during dosing day, and dosing trace daily at 10ml, more than double the dosage for my tank size, 40g. The extra trace elements do help the plants as far as I can see, even stopping some of my staghorn algae from growing. I was dosing trace daily at 10ml and maintaining nitrate at 20+ ppm. I would get dead shrimps every morning before CO2 comes on.

I even managed to bring back a dying Amano to life when I put it in my WC box which has no fert added.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-11-2011, 11:58 PM
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Don't know what exactly you dose, but with traces, as the name implies, more is often not better.

As a comparison, I dose about 2ml of a trace solution (50% Flourish, 50% DTPA) a day in my 250 gal tank. Shrimp and fish are very healthy, and while plants could possibly a bit greener here and there, overall they look good as well. I might be grossly under-dosing, so don't take this as a suggestion.

I guess it comes down to either live Amanos or excessive micro dosing.


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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wasserpest View Post
Don't know what exactly you dose, but with traces, as the name implies, more is often not better.

As a comparison, I dose about 2ml of a trace solution (50% Flourish, 50% DTPA) a day in my 250 gal tank. Shrimp and fish are very healthy, and while plants could possibly a bit greener here and there, overall they look good as well. I might be grossly under-dosing, so don't take this as a suggestion.

I guess it comes down to either live Amanos or excessive micro dosing.

I am using GLA dry ferts. My plants show signs of trace (cal or mag) deficiency with twisted, small new leaves when I was dosing only 10ml of trace 3x per week. Every morning I would find a lot of leaves flowing on the water surface because the stems got broken off. I decided to up my trace dosage to 10ml per day for about 2 weeks. Everything was fine except the shrimps. I am planning to dose trace daily with alternate between 10ml to 5ml. Monday at 10ml and Tuesday at 5ml and Wed at 10ml.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetra73 View Post
I am trying to dose EI daily with reduced dosage, but totaling about the same amount of fert as if I only dose 3x per week. I am trying to keep my shrimps (few Amanos and 20+ cherry shrimps) alive. Hopefully, my water becomes good enough to "restock" more Amanos. They don't like nitrate as far as I can tell, certainly excessive trace dosage can be bad for them. Possibility copper in the trace elements? Do plants uptake less nitrate if less of nitrate concentration in the water column? I am trying to keep nitrate around 10+ ppm per day. Before, is around 20+ during dosing day, and dosing trace daily at 10ml, more than double the dosage for my tank size, 40g. The extra trace elements do help the plants as far as I can see, even stopping some of my staghorn algae from growing. I was dosing trace daily at 10ml and maintaining nitrate at 20+ ppm. I would get dead shrimps every morning before CO2 comes on.

I even managed to bring back a dying Amano to life when I put it in my WC box which has no fert added.
I have severla hundred Amano shrimp, I dose roughly 0.5ppm of Fe as CMS and DTPA mix per day without any issues to any shrimp, CRS higher grades, Fire shrimps, and Amano's all thrive......

This is about 2-5x what many dose.

I'd look elsewhere for the issue.




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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 03:14 AM
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Plantbrain isn't big on copper toxicity, but maybe you'll find it interesting that someone has to dose over 5.0ppm Fe (10x Plantbrain's dose) from Plantex CSM+B before they got close to the recommended safe (LC50) Cu levels for the most sensitive species. You can find references to Copper databases and stuff here if you'd like. This is a wiki I hope others contribute to: http://y.petalphile.com/cu

In other words, you'd have to dose 20x Plantbrain's Plantex dose before you reached the lethal (LC100) levels. These are the levels you'd use if you were a pesticide company/etc actively trying to kill Caridina sp. You'd have to dose much much more if the goal was to kill most ornamental fish, too.

My first instinct is Aquasoil/Soil and a young tank. If you're not using Aquasoil or something else that leeches Ammonia(um) to the tank, I'd suggest checking out the CO2 levels and hardscape next.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 08:29 AM
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enough oxygen in the morning ?
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 10:53 AM
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There is most likely something else occuring here. My scrimp tank gets one huge dosage of gh booster and csm on my water change day plus a healthy dosage of n and p. No co2. Low light. Nitrates hover around 20ppm. And by huge i mean 10 gallon tank gets 1/4 tsp gh and 1/4 csm. My shrimp are still breeding and still have little hatchlings growing. I even used to have c02 but as low light as it is. Is not neccessary

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 11:54 AM
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I am actually dosing traces pretty heavy in my 75g. Fe included. I think that there are about 30 Amano's and 100+ Cherries in there. I have only had the cherries in this tank for about a month but I see no problems.

Actually, not sure if it's the lights or what, but, they look 100x's better in this tank. Much much deeper red in color. The tank is also full of berried females...

The only issue that I have had with shrimp have been with co2. I have have my 5# tank do a EOT dump. This didn't kill anything luckily, just made my Amano's try to jump ship.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 12:35 PM
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HAHA i had one amano jump ship in my high teker. the other ones aren't bothered. matter of fact they scavenge regularly out in the open

and on what dempsey said. some of the traces elements are really good for shrimp. it helps them build their carapace

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Here is an update. I did a 50% WC yesterday and with the reduce fert dosage. I didn't see any shrimp causalities as of this morning.

The only difference between my WC column and the tank water is that my WC water column temp was about 72 degree. The tank water was about 80 degree. WC water has no bioload while the tank water has too much bioload. Low O2 at night? It could be but if the lower O2 level isn't killing my fish, would it kill the shrimps? In the morning, the color on the drop checker is blue green.

All of the shrimp deaths happened at night or early in the morning, before the CO2 comes on. Hardscape? Just drift woods.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 03:58 PM
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shrimp are more sensitive to c02 and o2 than fishies.. my shrimp did fine in my high tek tank but it has good 02 saturation
low 02 could be the culprit
water holds less gasses at higher temps
02 and water don't really like each other much
drop the temp about 4 degrees and see what happens
rcs IME don't really appreciate temps higher than 78

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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shrimp are more sensitive to c02 and o2 than fishies.. my shrimp did fine in my high tek tank but it has good 02 saturation
low 02 could be the culprit
water holds less gasses at higher temps
02 and water don't really like each other much
drop the temp about 4 degrees and see what happens
rcs IME don't really appreciate temps higher than 78

More money spending....will get another air pump and probably later another timer to be used at night....
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 06:18 PM
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could u not drop the temp a little? do u have any way to agitate the surface ? if u already run an airstone in their. ur best option is to drop the temp a little

if u dont agitate the surface. start. its one of the best things you can do for your tank

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 07:46 PM
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My plants show signs of trace (cal or mag) deficiency with twisted, small new leaves when I was dosing only 10ml of trace 3x per week.
I could be wrong, but Ca and Mg are not considered traces. They might be part of a trace mix, like potassium for example, but don't dose more trace mix to supply those two. That would be similar to adding more KH2PO4 to increase potassium levels, if you know what I mean.

Adding some GH booster might be a better choice if Ca/Mg are really what's amiss.


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-14-2011, 01:21 PM
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calcium no. i would personally consider mg a trace. it is highly important for nutrient transport but GH booste rdoes supply it in modest amounts. tap water usually does as well

if u change your water regularly. the chance that you would have that specific deficiency is low

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