PMDD dosing/mixing for my tank help. - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OC, CA, US
Posts: 619
PMDD dosing/mixing for my tank help.

Hi,

I just received my PMDD shipment from gregwatson.com, and need help mixing and dosing for my tank.

Here's what I got from gregwatson
CSMPlantex1 CSM+B Plantex 1 lb - 1 $8.59
Nitrate Potassium Nitrate 1 lb. - 1 $2.17
PotassiumPhosphate Mono Potassium Phosphate 1 lb. - 1 $3.42
PotassiumSulfate Potassium Sulfate 1 lb. - 1 $2.17
IronChelate Iron Chelate 10% - 1 $8.59
MagnesiumSulfate Magnesium Sulfate - 1 $0.85

I've done some reading and searching and only find CSM+B mixing, I couldn't find all the rest.

So far I got: 1tbspn/500ml for CSM+B, but how much should I dose and how often for a 75G tank? I also know that I need 10:1 Nitrate:Phosphate relationship. I know this topic may be discuss many times, but I hope to get some opinion on my tank with it's unique water parameters.

Here's my tap water report:
http://teamvn.com/khoi/water2003.pdf

and here's my tank:
http://teamvn.com/khoi/fishalbum

Maybe Wolf can write a sticky on the general of fertilization?

Thanks alot,
Khoi


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
khoile is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 07:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
DarkCobra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 3,350
Hi Khoi,

I'm a relative planted tank/PMDD newbie, but I'll share a few things that might help.

First, pretty much everything you need to know about PMDD can be found here:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

Some comments on individual components that you have:
1) Iron Chelate - The CSM+B already has iron chelate. I have not heard of extra iron chelate being added to PMDD mix, and so am unfamiliar with its use.
2) Nitrate/Phosphate - I mixed my PMDD without these ingredients. I don't need extra of either at this time in my tank. Should I need them in the future, I will probably make separate solutions for them so that I have greater control.

The basic PMDD recipe, with no added nitrate/phosphate:
1 tablespoon chelated trace mix
1 tablespoon MgSO4+7H2O
2 tablespoons K2SO4
1/2 liter water

PMDD in solution has a limited shelf life. I have a 10g planted aquarium, so I certainly don't need 1/2 liter of PMDD! Instead, I premix the solid ingredients as per the original recipe, then use a bit of the solid mix to make small batches of liquid PMDD as necessary. I use an amber eyedropper bottle. My calculations:

1/2 liter of PMDD as per original recipe = 34 tablespoons
eyedropper volume = 2 tablespoons
eyedropper volume is 2/34, or 1/17th the volume of 1/2 liter
so to make 2 tablespoons of liquid PMDD, use 1/17th of the solid recipe
solid mix volume = 4 tablespoons
4/17 = 0.294 tablespoons of solid mix per 2 tablespoons water

This gives me a smaller batch without altering the concentration of the original recipe, which is handy when comparing doses/results with other people. Make sure to stir the solid mix before making a new batch, the grain sizes are not identical and it tends to settle.

The goal when using PMDD is to maintain an iron level of 0.1ppm, and never to exceed 0.2ppm. Using the calculations on the link I posted, I found that 3.2 drops/gal should theoretically raise iron from nothing to 0.1ppm. This was verified to be correct in my tank by using an iron test kit - if you don't have one, get one, it's necessary for dosing PMDD!

Since I have no other sources of iron than the PMDD, dosing PMDD during water changes is easy - I add 3.2 drops per gallon replaced. I currently have to do frequent water changes (nitrate out of control) so I don't do daily dosing.

Daily doses replace the iron the plants actually use to maintain the level at 0.1ppm. This is individual to your tank, and figuring this out requires the use of the iron test to monitor your iron levels.

Dosing is also dependent on other sources of iron in your tank. I see you're using Flourish, which I assume has iron. Also, you didn't mention your substrate, but it looks like it might be Seachem Onyx. If so, that's fluorite - another source of iron.

Hope this is of some help,
Chris
DarkCobra is offline  
post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OC, CA, US
Posts: 619
DarkCobra, thanks for the info. I'm digesting all the information right now.

I remember some where wolf post a chart as a basic guideline to dose a 75G tank. Anyone rememer? I couldn't find it.

I don't have an iron test kit, I'll get one this weekend and start my dose on the next water change.

Also, I know I'm short on nitrate right now and need to up nitrate by 20ppm. How do I do that? How much should I mix and dose to gain 20ppm in a 75G tank?

I'm in over my head now trying to figure out all this....

Thanks.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
khoile is offline  
 
post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OC, CA, US
Posts: 619
Ok, I went back to Chuck's calculator and looklike if I mix 1tbspn of KNO3 to 250ml of water, I would get 0.15ppm / ml drop. So I would need 13 ml to get my Nitrate level to 2ppm. Am I correct? Also Chuck's has a "add dry" compound directly to tank. Should I just do that and not worry about storing the rest of the 250ml?

*Edit* Ok i'm wrong, I need 20ppm for the 10:1 ration between nitrate and phosphate. However it is only recommend to have 10ppm of nitrate and 1 ppm of phosphate max. Look like I need some phosphate remover to reduce my 2ppm of phosphate to 1ppm? Also, LOL, I would need 133 ml instead 13 to get my nitrate to 20ppm.


Thanks.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
khoile is offline  
post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 09:05 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Marc's Avatar
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 1,197
yes in your case i would dose dry in your tank- its more accurate. Use the calulator to figure out how much you dose to bring the levels up to where you want them.

Find out whats causing you Phosphates to be at 2pmm. Test your tap water after you let it sit for a few hrs.

For the CSM+B- i mixed 250 ml (half cup) water with 1tablespoon.

Here is my scedule for my 55 gal
Monday Reset Water Change
1/2 tsp kno3
1/8 tsp kh2po4
1/3 tsp K+
Tuesday
5ml CSM+B
Wed
Same as monday
Thurs
Same as tuesday
Fri
Same as Monday
Sat.
same as Tuesday
Sunday
No Dose
Monday
Reset start over again


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Marc is offline  
post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 10:47 PM
BSS
Wannabe Guru
 
BSS's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Oviedo, FL USA
Posts: 1,600
Also beware that some of the dosing recommendations seem to be in flux. Per some good threads on this forum recently, several are recommending getting levels of NO3=20, PO4=2 and CO2>=30. Chuck's calculator likely shows most of these (esp. CO2) at dangerous levels. Though with the newer Estimative Index (EI) approach, the goal is to prevent *anything* from bottoming out, so keep the levels higher and keep up with weekly 50% water changes. You might want to do some searches for EI or "Tom Barr"...he's the originator (I believe) of the EI approach.

46g bf, XP3 w/ vertical spray bar, CO2 w/ SMS122 & diffuser,100% Flourite, 96w+55w cf AHS, AGA Member
BSS is offline  
post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-03-2005, 10:48 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
WfxXx's Avatar
 
PTrader: (125/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoile

Maybe Wolf can write a sticky on the general of fertilization?

Thanks alot,
Khoi
I have been meaning to do that as time permit's, been very busy last few week's,
But I will try real soon.
Here is that link you were looking for.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=13328

You need alot more plant's in you're tank before you start dosing to hard though..

Thank's

Craig

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WfxXx is offline  
post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OC, CA, US
Posts: 619
Thanks,

I printed out the thread, I'm going to read it in class today (some computer graphics... not important ). I'm sure I'll come back with some question.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
khoile is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 02:03 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
compulsion's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 524
Send a message via MSN to compulsion
can i just ask.. K+ is calcuim right?

55US Gallon Medium Planted | 36x15x24Tall
PH 7.0 - 7.2 GH 11
Ehiem 2232 Thermo
2.7WPG 160W 10,000k 5xNO T8's
Sand+Eco Clay, CSM+B Baby Steps + Pres.Co2
compulsion is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 02:06 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
WfxXx's Avatar
 
PTrader: (125/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,037
hehe no, that would be Ca.
K+= Potassium/ K2S04

Craig

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WfxXx is offline  
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 02:33 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
compulsion's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 524
Send a message via MSN to compulsion
i wondered where marc included his potassium

55US Gallon Medium Planted | 36x15x24Tall
PH 7.0 - 7.2 GH 11
Ehiem 2232 Thermo
2.7WPG 160W 10,000k 5xNO T8's
Sand+Eco Clay, CSM+B Baby Steps + Pres.Co2
compulsion is offline  
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 02:37 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
compulsion's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 524
Send a message via MSN to compulsion
i suppose i should ask where Ca comes into it, i know its sold on gregwatson but its never in any of the recipes... what do the plants use it for?

55US Gallon Medium Planted | 36x15x24Tall
PH 7.0 - 7.2 GH 11
Ehiem 2232 Thermo
2.7WPG 160W 10,000k 5xNO T8's
Sand+Eco Clay, CSM+B Baby Steps + Pres.Co2
compulsion is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-04-2005, 03:44 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
WfxXx's Avatar
 
PTrader: (125/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,037
ya, with a gh of 11 you most likely have plenty.

Craig

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WfxXx is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-07-2005, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OC, CA, US
Posts: 619
I posted this in the wrong thread, and just want to move it here (fix the does->dose spelling).

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoile
Hi,

Here's what I decided to dose, please let me know if it's good.

I measured my tap and it does have 2ppm of phosphate, so I am not dosing KH2PO4.

On WC day, I dose:
1/2 Tsp of Nitrate (KNO3)
1/4 Tsp of Potassium (K2SO4)

WC+1 day:
Mix 75ml to 1/3 Tbsp (1 Teaspn) of CSM+B, dose 10ml *Edit* 4/10/05 for reference
Mix 75ml to 1/3 Tbsp (1 Teaspn) of Iron Chelate, dose 2ml *Edit* 4/10/05 for reference

That what I got so far, my plan is:
WC+even day
Macros (KNO3, K2SO4)

WC+odd day
Micros (CSM+B, Fe)

Let me know if this is right or will it work? Please look at my sig for tank information.

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WfxXx
Keep an eye on the P04 throughout the week to make sure it does not bottom out, you may need to dose midweek after plants get established, uptake may take off, just keep watch on it for a few week's.

As tank mature's and plant's grow heavy, you may want to up the KN03 to 3/4Tsp.
Go with 1/8Tsp K2S04..1/4Tsp being a tad to much

Make sure you're C02 stay's up during photoperiod.
Everything else look's good..

Another question, currently I only mix 75ml, because I'm not sure how long a 250ml will last, and how long can I keep it until I have to discard the rest. is 75ml mix good or there's a reason to mix 250ml?

Thanks.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by khoile; 04-10-2005 at 04:00 PM.
khoile is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-07-2005, 09:50 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
WfxXx's Avatar
 
PTrader: (125/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,037
250ml last me a little over a month I'de say, that's dosing 3 tank's
As far as I know, it will not spoil, I don't refridgerate it, I guess you could if you chose to, I simply put it on my fert shelf.
Whatever work's for you my friend, if you choose 75ml, that's fine too, you may find yourself making solution's frequently, but hey, if it ain't broke.. don't fix it!!.

Craig

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
WfxXx is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome