Light fish load = problem for plants? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Light fish load = problem for plants?

Quick question for all. I've been noticing some major deficiency issues with most of my plants (most are yellow, new and old growth, and some older growth has shriveled). My water parameters are fine (10-20 ppm nitrate, 1 ppm phosphate, ? ppm potassium, 5 kH, 6.7 pH). Test kits are new and agree with my older kits.

The tank is about 12-14 gallons, is heavily planted, and has 6 white cloud minnows in it. I consider this a light load. Could this be contributing to plant deficiency problems?

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 08:49 PM
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NO. you don't need any fish to make plants healthy. Something is missing in your dosing.


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 08:50 PM
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assuming your adding co2 and not something else to lower your ph, what about traces are you adding them? Potassium are you adding it?
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Traces: Adding Flourish Trace (once I get my tax return, I'll be buying some CMS+B) and Flourish Iron daily.

Potassium: I dose x ppm N with KNO3 and then dose x ppm K with K2SO4.

CO2: Yup, pressurized.

Lighting: 65W

Substrate: Eco-complete w/ flourish root tabs

I think it's either Potassium or Calcium, but I can't seem to resolve the problem no matter how I change my dosing schedule/amounts/water changes/etc. I'm trying to be patient, but I'm getting very tired of looking at my thoroughly yellow tank.

I'm currently increasing the potassium dosing to see if it'll help. If not, I'll try decreasing the potassium dosing.

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 09:47 PM
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It is not Ca or K+ or Mg deficiency, but a C02 deficiency.
Increase C02, 65 watts on 14gallons? hehe
And dose accordingly, with that much lumens you will need to stay on top of fert's KN03/P04

Or decrease the amount of light..

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WfxXx
It is not Ca or K+ or Mg deficiency, but a C02 deficiency.
Increase C02, 65 watts on 14gallons? hehe
And dose accordingly, with that much lumens you will need to stay on top of fert's KN03/P04

Or decrease the amount of light..
It's actually a 20 gallon (high) tank. It's a paludarium, so it's not all the way full. I'm not convinced that it's too much light.

I seriously doubt it's CO2 -- 5 kH and 6.7 pH should give me 30 ppm CO2, no?

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 11:35 PM
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The only two things you really benefit from in a heavier bio-load is phosphates and nitrates.
Since those levels are good its nothing to do with your light bio-load. Since your CO2 seems adequate I would now look towards nutrient deficiency's , micro's and macro's... are you dosing enough for that amount of light? And Yes, that is a lot of light.


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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
The only two things you really benefit from in a heavier bio-load is phosphates and nitrates.
Since those levels are good its nothing to do with your light bio-load. Since your CO2 seems adequate I would now look towards nutrient deficiency's , micro's and macro's... are you dosing enough for that amount of light? And Yes, that is a lot of light.
I don't know -- how much should I be dosing? I dose daily:

N 2.5 ppm
P .25 ppm
K 3.5 ppm
Iron .15 ppm
Micros 2.5 mL Flourish Trace (maybe I'll increase this to 5 mL)
Water changes: 20% twice a week

Under this dosing regimen, N remains between 10 and 20 ppm and P remains around 1 ppm.

I don't have a particularly horrible algae problem, but there is some red hair algae on parts of the substrate and some green fuzz/thread algae along the waterline (particularly in the moss).

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 12:36 AM
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What is your GH? If you don't see twisted/bent/stunted new growth, then it is probably not Ca. I would try Mg(some epsom salt). How sure are you of NO3 measurements? I have yellow growth when NO3 bottomed out. Things greened up when I added NO3. Not enough trace/iron is still a possibility, Flourish Trace is very weak compared to regular Flourish.


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
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gH is 10 and I'm pretty certain of my NO3 readings (now that I know how to read the AP test kit results). I just measured my N and P again and got 10 ppm and 1 ppm. I don't like pushing these any higher because I tend to get algae if phosphate gets much higher than 1 ppm.

Think .15 ppm Iron/day is enough? I don't want to overdose...

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 09:48 AM
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are swordplants some of the ones that are turning yellow? This can many times be caused by not enough nutrients being absorbed by the roots. Swords and crypts(especially) are heavy root feeders, so I am assuming you have either flourite, eco-complete or onyx, etc and/or adding root tabs, otherwise that could be your problem there.

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 12:21 PM
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N/P are fine, I wouldnt touch those either... your iron dosing is low, I would up that to 1ppm daily to start.
Another problem I see is I wouldnt waste my time on Flourish Trace...change to Flourish. The only people who might benefit from adding Trace is those using R/O water, other then that its a waste of money IMO.
For my own personal curiousity, I bought a 500ml bottle and dosed it in place of Flourish just too see the results and the plants went downhill. It cannot be used without Flourish, but Flourish can be used without Trace.
Growth actually stunted, the plants had frail new growth and the oldest growth began to lose color after 1 month of its use "without" adding the normal Flourish. If that stuff cant even sustain coloring after that short of time, how much help can it be ? It aint cheap either !!! LOL

Like I said , maybe the R/O users would see a difference but IMO everyday tap water ,whether its well or city water, has everything that Trace has.... as soon as I started redosing the Flourish again, the plants responded within 1 week with their good color's and overall appearance.
I poured the rest of the Trace down the drain.

This could be part of the problem maybe...everything else seems to be in order.


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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I'll try increasing my Iron dosing (slowly) and I'll order some CMS+B as soon as possible (better than Flourish, no?). I guess that the good news is that the plants aren't dying; they just look like crap.

Everything looks yellow: bacoba carolinia, HC, green hygro, m. quadrifolia, glosso, and red ludwigia. The moss looks alright (though it's a little stringy) and the dwarf hairgrass looks OK, but everything else is yellow. It's particularly noticable in the green hygro and HC. There doesn't seem to be a difference between emersed and submersed growth -- it's affecting both.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 02:20 PM
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Everything looks yellow? could it be your light that is giving a strong yellow? I know some plant grow bulbs are notorious for the yellow color.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-27-2005, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danmhippo
Everything looks yellow? could it be your light that is giving a strong yellow? I know some plant grow bulbs are notorious for the yellow color.
I wish. No, a white piece of paper is white under this light. The plants are clearly yellow/pale.

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