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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Confused

In 6 days I will pick up my ADA 60-P after 7 months of dreaming. Somehow I overlooked dosing fertz and kH gH.

I will show my tank specs and then ask my questions.

Style Iwagumi
ADA 60-P (17gal)
Nova Extreme SLR 2x24w suspended 1 ft above water (highlight)
Pressurized co2 inline diffuser
Inline heater
Eheim 2213

Stocking
15 Ember tetras
7 Pygmy Cories
3 Otos
Amano Shrimp
kH & gH
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My pH to begin with is 6.4 (perfect!) but after Co2 it drops to about 6 or a bit lower. I have heard by aerating the water this makes the pH swing less and of course keeps fish from dieing. I think I would add a Co2 diffuser attached to an air pump.

You are supposed to keep the kH up to prevent swings in pH and you can do this by adding calcium carbonate or baking soda. I don't understand what gH is, why does it matter? And would one of the cheap API test kits be good enough? That is the kit I am using for Ph, Ammonia ect.


Fertz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since this is Iwagumi the plants will mostly be highlight ground covers. I don't really know much about what I need. I know Iron, Potassium, and Magnesium are used but I don't know if they would apply to these kinds of plants. I would like to use dry fertz since the liquid additives are so expensive.

I could probably better pick the kinds of fertz once I am positive what kinds of plants I want.



If you have any suggestions please post
Thanks!


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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 10:08 PM
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Most all of your plants are going to require the same fertilizers regardless of species. Although certain species do consume things at different rates, they all need to same basic ferts. The micro nutrients are potassium, nitrogen, and phosphates, and the micros are a whole gang of stuff like iron, magnesium, boron, zinc, etc. etc. When you dose a micro complex it will contain all the necessary micros.

People claim that pH swings aren't that detrimental to fish, but I couldn't tell you for sure. I run my CO2 24/7 so my pH stays fairly consistent. I am not too knowledgeable on the issues of kh and gh so I can't really answer that aspect of your question.

What part of Oregon are you from?


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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 10:16 PM
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You say what the plant were with the exception of a vague note that there were “ground cover and high lights”

So let’s begin with what I use as a dosing plan. It’s called the EI dosing Method or “Estimative Index Method”. It was developed by our very own Tom Barr, I believe.
Now to the heart of the matter.

Tom Barr has his own site that explain many thing far better than I could ever hope to remember.
Here’s a link: http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...-for-Test-Kits

Basically you’ll need three or four fertilizers
KNO3
KH2PO4
Plantex CSM +B
Calcium Carbonate
Sodium bicarbonate

The latter two will help you with your GH and KH

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Wes

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 11:31 PM
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This may have been said

The pH swing is ok for the fish but may shut down your nitrifying bacteria below a certain pH the water is too acidic for it to function, makes sense to me!

When buying dry fertilizers get everything and double up on KNO3, you'll find later that most things are cheap with a few exceptions and if you want to add something later the product may be $2.50 for a half pound but the shipping is $11, so get what you need the first time.


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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 11:40 PM
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I use plantbrain's latest EI guidelines and they work well.

EI dosing for a 50 gallon tank:
2-3x a week:
1/2 teaspoon KNO3
1/8th teaspoon of the KH2P4
I think he meant KH2P04
Add K2SO4 after water change, say 1 teaspoon

CMS+B, I'd add 1 TABLE spoon into 500mls of water, 1 teaspoon of MgSO4(Epsom salt), dose 15mls 3x a week


But I don't think you'll need to dose any micros seperate and Plantex + CSM should have all the nutrients needed and then some, I have to dose micros at a reduced rate to avoid thread algae problems and my plants still have good color and structure.


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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! Would these help?
KNO3
KH2PO4
Plantex CSM +B
Ultimate GH Booster (macro)

I'm still a bit confused (that should be my word of the day) about measuring the levels of the nutrients. The link say you shouldn't use test kits but you should have a range of ? to ?. How would you know, would you adjust by seeing how well the plants grow? I think a lot of this went over my head I am only 13 I would ask my sister but we are dropping her off in college, that is when I will get the tank at AFA.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-21-2011, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karatekid14 View Post
Thanks guys! Would these help?
KNO3
KH2PO4
Plantex CSM +B
Ultimate GH Booster (macro)

I'm still a bit confused (that should be my word of the day) about measuring the levels of the nutrients. The link say you shouldn't use test kits but you should have a range of ? to ?. How would you know, would you adjust by seeing how well the plants grow? I think a lot of this went over my head I am only 13 I would ask my sister but we are dropping her off in college, that is when I will get the tank at AFA.
When you follow Tom Barr's methodology, including how the ferts are first disolved in water, then all one needs to do is account for the size of their tank (water volume) and dose from there. The plants take up the nutients. Water changes resets things back to near zero.

Hope this helps a little.

Best wishes,
Wes

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 150EH View Post
I use plantbrain's latest EI guidelines and they work well.

EI dosing for a 50 gallon tank:
2-3x a week:
1/2 teaspoon KNO3
1/8th teaspoon of the KH2P4
I think he meant KH2P04
Add K2SO4 after water change, say 1 teaspoon

CMS+B, I'd add 1 TABLE spoon into 500mls of water, 1 teaspoon of MgSO4(Epsom salt), dose 15mls 3x a week


But I don't think you'll need to dose any micros seperate and Plantex + CSM should have all the nutrients needed and then some, I have to dose micros at a reduced rate to avoid thread algae problems and my plants still have good color and structure.
Sorry I didn't see your message 150EH, it must have popped up while I was writing my last reply. So according to that this is what I should dose

EI dosing for a 17 gallon tank:
2-3x a week:
1/6 teaspoon KNO3
1/24 teaspoon of the KH2P04
? of the Ultimate GH Booster

Add K2SO4 after water change, say 1/3 teaspoon

CMS+B, I'd add 1/3 TABLE spoon into 166mls of water, 1/3 teaspoon of MgSO4(Epsom salt), dose 5mls 3x a week


These are all insanely small numbers. Are you supposed to mix up a solution with tank water and pour it in, or directly pour the dry fertz in? If you can mix it and save it that would be much easier, I could use 1/2 teaspoons not 1/6 teaspoon, that would be hard especially since it doesn't exist.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Oh never mind the previous post I could mix it ahead of time (every time I asked a question it is already answered by the time I ask it)
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 150EH View Post
I use plantbrain's latest EI guidelines and they work well.

EI dosing for a 50 gallon tank:
2-3x a week:
1/2 teaspoon KNO3
1/8th teaspoon of the KH2P4
I think he meant KH2P04
Add K2SO4 after water change, say 1 teaspoon

CMS+B, I'd add 1 TABLE spoon into 500mls of water, 1 teaspoon of MgSO4(Epsom salt), dose 15mls 3x a week


But I don't think you'll need to dose any micros seperate and Plantex + CSM should have all the nutrients needed and then some, I have to dose micros at a reduced rate to avoid thread algae problems and my plants still have good color and structure.

question when u dose more micros does ur thread algae problem originate on stem plants? i ask because it is possible you don't have enough magnesium and/or iron.. i've had to add 1/2 tsp magnesium (epsom salt) and 2 ml seachem iron to my micro schedule to combat my same problem

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 01:54 AM
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Don't mix the CSM+B in with the other fertilizers in one bottle. The iron in the CSM will combine with the phosphates in the KH2PO4 and precipitate out, remaining in the bottle instead of being dosed to the tank.

The easy way to mix the fertilizer chemicals in water is to first decide how many ounces or ml of the mix you want to use per dose. For example if you have a 16 ounce bottle, you could dose one ounce per dose, so the bottle contains 16 doses total. Then, just add 16 times each dose of each chemical to the bottle, dry. Fill the bottle with water and shake it up, and you are set to dose one ounce each time you dose. Do another bottle for the CSM+B, the same way, and you are set to dose one ounce per dose of that each time. This way you don't have to measure 1/16 tsp of anything. 1/2 tsp is about the smallest quantity you will be measuring and that's a standard kitchen measuring spoon size. This, http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/aq...nser-16oz.html is what I use, and they work great.

Hoppy
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Hoppy, I hadn't even thought of combining the fertz. So I can combine all the fertz together and have a separate solution for the CSM+B. The CSM+B is to raise the gh so I don't need the Ultimate GH Booster (from GLA) correct?
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 02:39 AM
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No the CSM+B is Micro nutrients. You will need the GH Booster if your water is low in GH or you are using RO or RODI water.


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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks I thought they were the same for some reason.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2011, 05:27 PM
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I use a wet solution (many use dry) and dose with a 35 ml syrynge, so I add 10 doses of macros (KNO3, KH2PO4) to say 200 ml of water in an old soda bottle and I can adjust my dosing easily without getting out the dry materials everyday. Same on the Micros and I mix just like I stated above (use 5ml or so of Excel to stop mold growth in the micro solution), then I only add K2SO4 to the water (dry) after every water change.

I just find it easier, some how I'm alway sweeping up dry goods from my desk and it makes it easier to fine tune your dosing if your having any problems.

HD Blazingwolf; I read some place that Thread was cause by high Fe but it kinda seems like nobody really knows, but I also use Flourite which is supposed to hold Fe really well so I kept reducing my micros and finally the Thread algae stopped. Also my original micro mix was too potent as I had made a mistake trying to use the Fertilator at APC, so I think I had a build up of Fe as well.

It's funny that yours was a totally different correction and yes it did occur on the fast growing stem plants only (Cobomba) and I would rarely see it else where.


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