how to get high co2 with fish - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 1,153
how to get high co2 with fish

So i just put some neon's in my planted tank with lots of co2 but i found i had to really lower the co2 down to get them to a point where they weren't gasping as the surface for air.

So my questions is to the people that have their co2 in the 70-80 ppm range how do you get to this level of co2 with your pressurized system. Do you just have tons of surface agitation or is there something else?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rockhoe14er is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 05:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Dempsey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (115/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Clifton Heights, PA
Posts: 2,175
Good surface agitation and circulation is key. Without both, you are asking for trouble.

Clint

“Presents are the best way to show someone how much you care. It is like this tangible thing that you can point to and say, ‘Hey man, I love you this many dollars-worth.’” -Michael Scott


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dempsey is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
xmas_one's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,401
70 to 80 ppm is ridiculous, no reason to go that high unless you're trying to prove some silly point.
xmas_one is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 07:05 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
To start with, it is highly unlikely that you will be measuring CO2 accurately enough to know that you have 70-80 ppm in the tank. So, I don't see much reason too shoot for that number. To be able to use the maximum amount of CO2, whatever the ppm is, you need to make sure the water is always saturated with oxygen, which lets the fish live comfortably with higher CO2. You can get a good start on that by keeping the entire water surface constantly rippled - no splashing, just big ripples. And, of course, you can only use high CO2 if you shut it off at night. High CO2 isn't going to be of much benefit unless it is high all over the tank, so very good in-tank water circulation is essential.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 07:44 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
OverStocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (76/94%)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SoDak
Posts: 10,732
Good oxygenation, and going very very slowly is the key. Raising it over a few weeks is the best way.
OverStocked is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 07:53 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Jeff5614's Avatar
 
PTrader: (52/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 3,605
It seems like a lot of CO2. So much so that I would think you have too much light if you have to run it that high or you don't have very good circulation. But if it's working for you and your fish don't mind then keep it up.

FWIW, in this years ADA catalog, there's a section on CO2 that includes a graph of CO2 levels in ADA tanks and CO2 levels peak around 14 ppm. I'm sure that's pretty dependent on their lighting levels and the plants they use though.
Jeff5614 is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 1,153
I have 70 par at my substrate I just wanted to make sure that I have as much co2 as I can to make sure I can provide my plants with enough co2.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rockhoe14er is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 09:12 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
xmas_one's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,401
Better to watch plants rather than meters and charts.
xmas_one is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2011, 09:38 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
150EH's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Churchton, Maryland
Posts: 5,370
I have a circulation pump 2 inches below the water line pointed toward the surface and another 4 inches above my substrate in a 150 gallon tank. As soon as my lights turn off I have a 28 inch bubble wand at the bottom of the back glass that stays on all night and shuts off just 45 minutes before the lights come on, I also start my CO2 injection 45 minutes before the lights come on to let it build up a little. The fish & plants are happy and the plants pearl everyday, if I ever have any algae problem I reduce my lighting to adjust.

According to my pH/kH my tank also has 70 to 80 ppm of CO2 and according to my drop checker I need more, but in 8 years I've never gassed a fish until 3 weeks ago by looking at that stupid drop checker (4 Rummynosed & 2 Green Neons) so if you see fish huddled and inactive on the bottom or going to the surface and this isn't normal, turn down the CO2, good luck.

For some reason Tetras are the aquariums warning system and it seems they die first in many of our aquarium mistakes, so for me they are a good indicator fish but I don't plan to kill any more!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
150EH is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-14-2011, 02:31 PM
Algae Grower
 
Tim Trabue's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Suzhou China
Posts: 18
I beleive I am following the recommendations that I have read on the forum and still having problems with fish death (tetras).

KH was 8.6 and now down to 6.7 degrees with the addition of peat in my cannister filter after 1/2 week. I regulate ph to a minumum of 7 (start one hour before the lights come on and stop when the lights go off). During the time the lights are out and no Co2 my PH rises to 7.8. I am using a PH controller and have confirmed the PH with electrode calibration buffers and a test kit. Reasonably strong surface agitation 24x7. I also polish the water with a micron filter for a few hours a day (additional surface agitation). I turn on an air pump when the lights are out.

How quickly do you drop the PH when you turn on the controller? I have tried a very slow drop but the plants were not doing as well.
Tim Trabue is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-14-2011, 03:56 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff5614 View Post
It seems like a lot of CO2. So much so that I would think you have too much light if you have to run it that high or you don't have very good circulation. But if it's working for you and your fish don't mind then keep it up.

FWIW, in this years ADA catalog, there's a section on CO2 that includes a graph of CO2 levels in ADA tanks and CO2 levels peak around 14 ppm. I'm sure that's pretty dependent on their lighting levels and the plants they use though.
I'm pretty sure that was poor CO2 measurement and assuming the KH was actually all bicarb..........also, many doctor their parameters to suit the dogma, not the reality. Less is always perceived as "better" in many circles, aquarium books..........even if there's no real evidence to support this contention. Without some form of standard reference, such measures have no comparative measure to the true ppm.

Maybe it was 14ppm, maybe it was 35ppm, maybe it was taken AFTER the picture was taken and after they added lots of light for the photograph. All the CO2 is used up then. There are many many many unanswered questions there. I know what good plant growth looks like at various CO2 concentrations, few of ADA's tanks run at such low levels, that much I'm fairly confident of. You can rule you ferts and light fairly well and measure those easily. This leaves CO2 mostly.

I also curiously see very few fish in their tanks and of those, they are mostly highly CO2 tolerant.

And...the devil is in the details and methods.

I run a reference for CO2...........I think I might be the only person who has suggested and advocated this in the entire hobby, which is ......sad truthfully. Do not readily accept these things as truth/accurate.

I don't.

I really do not know what a good ppm levels is for a general target, some tanks will have 70ppm, others at 45ppm, a few maybe 30-35ppm.....
Different plant species also have different non limiting CO2 [aq] ppm's.

Light greatly influences things, current etc.

It's not a simple thing folks go add 30ppm, it is easy to measure and that's all their is to it, many many make this assumption(Not you, I'm just commenting on the ADA claims , not you personally, fear not!)

RO/DI water in with a KH reference (say 1-10 liters) with CO2 added/well mixed and pH meter can make a decent CO2 reference.

This way you KNOW the pH and KH are well corrected for any error.
Adjust the CO2 flow and mark down the changes in pH/CO2ppm, then measure the tank's KH and pH, see if there is any differences.

I simply use a slow metered adjustment to target the tank's plants, I do not stress the fish out as the upper bound, the plants should respond nicely without gassing your fish.




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-14-2011, 03:59 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Trabue View Post
I beleive I am following the recommendations that I have read on the forum and still having problems with fish death (tetras).

KH was 8.6 and now down to 6.7 degrees with the addition of peat in my cannister filter after 1/2 week. I regulate ph to a minumum of 7 (start one hour before the lights come on and stop when the lights go off). During the time the lights are out and no Co2 my PH rises to 7.8. I am using a PH controller and have confirmed the PH with electrode calibration buffers and a test kit. Reasonably strong surface agitation 24x7. I also polish the water with a micron filter for a few hours a day (additional surface agitation). I turn on an air pump when the lights are out.

How quickly do you drop the PH when you turn on the controller? I have tried a very slow drop but the plants were not doing as well.
My CO2 is about 50ppm or so in 45 minutes.
Starting at 3ppm. It slowly rises to about 70-80ppm at the end.
Drops to 3ppm in about 30 minutes.

O2 is about 7ppm, then shoots to about 10-11ppm at the end of the light cycle 7-10 hours in.

I have high current and a wet/dry filter.

Also:


Plenty of cardinals and many other fish, shrimp etc.




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-14-2011, 04:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmas_one View Post
Better to watch plants rather than meters and charts.
+1

I have long done this, ADA does actually............they might test because people pester them.




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome