Iron EDTA or DTPA or both? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-25-2011, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Iron EDTA or DTPA or both?

I see them both for sale. Is one better than the other?
Would a mixture of both be even better?
Are there other chelators I should consider?

Steve


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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-26-2011, 11:08 AM
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What is your ph?
If you have around 6,5 -use EDTA
If you have 6,5-7,5-use DTPA
other chelators like EDDHMA,EDDHA are stable even at ph 9-10.
But they will colour your water for a while.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-26-2011, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thanx. I used EDTA in electroless copper plating baths when I was still working in the printed circuit board manufacturing industry years ago.

Steve


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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 08:12 PM
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EDTA in lower KH, PH is not important IMO. DTPA if the water have high KH. you could still dose EDTA in high PH/KH but you might have to dose 3x more than recommended dose.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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What's considered high/low KH?

Steve


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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioaficionado View Post
What's considered high/low KH?
am not sure if you are trying to make fun of my previous post but here is the answer anyway, High Kh effects the way plant absorb the nutrients and co2 etc, Kh of 6 is considered good for most plants, having higher Kh mean more co2 and more ferts needed by plants, still they will have hard time using those nutrients.

my tap water is Ph of 7.0 and kh of 6, plants still struggle if i don't dose extra stuff.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 12:27 AM
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I don't think he's making fun of you... c_c I'm wondering the same thing too, what is actually considered high and what is low.

e.g. <=4 is considered low and >4 is considered high, etc.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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^^ Correct.

Once I get a Python or equivalent water changer, I'll be going into full EI mode w/GH booster. I can get either EDTA or DTPA or a combination of both to boost my iron to Tropica micros levels. My pH is generally ~6.5 or less with my DIY CO2 levels at lime green. I'd like there to be enough calcium to help the snails and shrimp not to dissolve over time.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioaficionado View Post
^^ Correct.

Once I get a Python or equivalent water changer, I'll be going into full EI mode w/GH booster. I can get either EDTA or DTPA or a combination of both to boost my iron to Tropica micros levels. My pH is generally ~6.5 or less with my DIY CO2 levels at lime green. I'd like there to be enough calcium to help the snails and shrimp not to dissolve over time.
just making sure , anyway having a PH of 6.5 with the co2 mean that you have PH of 7.2 or something without co2. you should test for KH if possible, everything else about the water is no need to worry. if your water read high TDS, then you might have Ca and Mg or just Ca and no Mg, if plants don't do well add Mg.

if you want you can try both EDTA or DTPA and see the results for yourself.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 06:06 PM
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 07:04 PM
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You can simply use both and add about 1:4 ratio of DTPA to CMS mix.

Covers both bases that way.




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to make up DIY Tropica Plant Nutrition.
DIY Tropica Plant Nutrition! Mix your own Micro solution on the cheap!
I want to get enough of everything and not too much of anything.
Seems that CSM+B & Miller's MicroPlex each have things the other doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Leaf Aquariums View Post
Plantex CSM Miller's Microplex
--------------------------------------
Fe 7.0 % 4.0%
Mn 2.0 % 4.0 %
Mg 1.5 % 1.4 %
Zn 0.4 % 1.5 %
Cu 0.1 % 1.5 %
Mo 0.05 % ---
B --- 0.5 %
Co --- 0.05 %
Mb --- 0.1 %
CSM+B has boron too.

Steve


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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioaficionado View Post
I see them both for sale. Is one better than the other?
Would a mixture of both be even better?
Are there other chelators I should consider?
It doesn't really matter since 99% of the iron will be in your filter or substate in 24 hours. Soluble iron dosing is a one shot thing. You should dose iron every day.

If you play with chemicals you should know some chemisty.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ray-the-pilot View Post
It doesn't really matter since 99% of the iron will be in your filter or substate in 24 hours. Soluble iron dosing is a one shot thing. You should dose iron every day.
That may be true for straight ferrous sulfate oxidizing to the less soluble ferric ion, but chelators are able to hold the metal in solution much longer as a complex rather than a simple dissolved salt.

Steve


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioaficionado View Post
That may be true for straight ferrous sulfate oxidizing to the less soluble ferric ion, but chelators are able to hold the metal in solution much longer as a complex rather than a simple dissolved salt.
Really? I tried testing for souble chelated iron and couldn't find any after 24 hours. If you have a favorite formula, I'll see if I can find any in solution after 24 hours. (The next question is: With iron that is so stongly chelated, can any plant use it?).
I take iron supliments every day and dose iron every day. The thing with plants is many can get iron from the substrate.

If you play with chemicals you should know some chemisty.
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