different plants - different dosing?? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
different plants - different dosing??

I have mostly stem plants -

ludwigia repens
water wisteria
moneywort

Also anubias congensis and nana

a couple crypts
the lacy java fern
a bolbitus

some anacharis and hornwort

It is a low tech, 60 watts on 50 gal tank. I don't test, but I have always had high ph and hard water. I have put root medic complete capsules into the substrate.

Do I also need to dose the water column?
Macros? Micros?
redmary51 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-08-2011, 04:25 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Noahma's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thornton, Colorado
Posts: 4,339
It would not hurt, you can use say half or 1/4 EI dosing. But it is not 100% necessary


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Noahma is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 06:58 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 36
Hey Mary

Just picked up this thread.

My first question would be: How are the plants growing?

If they are not growing well try dosing the water column, plants feed from both the roots and the water column, so why not cover both bases. Dosing the substrate means you don't have to religiously dose the water column but it still not a bad idea to do so, say once every 2 weeks.

Fred
fjf888 is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
They seem to be growing, but slowly. The water wisteria lower leaves always turn brown and curl. They may not be getting enough light, since my tank is so deep.

I was also concerned about the java fern that is not in the substrate at all.
redmary51 is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 03:15 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 36
Java fern doesn't need special care to survive, you could be right about the wisteria, but I would not necessarily upgrade the lighting yet.

I would be curious as to your nitrate reading. If you use excel you likely need to dose the water column 1x a week. No regular excel, you can probably get by once every couple week. I would start with potassium and iron/traces and see if that leads to significant improvement. It is more likely in your tank that nitrate and phosphate are covered via fish waste and feeding.

Fred
fjf888 is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 04:42 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
With low light CO2 is the most effective "fertilizer" you can use. Even DIY CO2 is very helpful to the plants. What makes up the 60 watts of bulbs you use? Three 20 watt, 24" long T12 bulbs?

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
My lighting is 2 30 watt 36" daylight T12 bulbs and the tank is 50 gal, about 20-21 inches deep, 36 inches long and 18 inches wide
redmary51 is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
Fred, I put some Excel in at water changes only, now. I still have a little bit of bba that won't seem to go away. I was reading on one of the algae reference sites that fewer water changes in a low tech tank keep the parameters more stable, so I just started trying that. I only topped it off last weekend. What I was doing before just didn't seem to be working, so I thought I would try a new approach.

I have quite a few plants now and 18 tetras, a Chinese algae eater, a bristlenose pleco and an apple snail - also multiple pond snails that I fish out regularly to keep the numbers down.
redmary51 is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
You definitely do have low light, very nearly as low as you can expect to grow plants with. If you add DIY CO2 I'm willing to bet you will see a dramatic difference in how well the plants grow. Check the DIY forum for lots of threads on how to do DIY CO2.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
Thanks Hoppy, but I would rather not mess with CO2. I'll think about it for a while and see how the plants do. I may change my mind.

If I use Excel, then I will have to do regular water changes again, right?
redmary51 is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 01:26 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
nonconductive's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 2,942
i dont see a need for regular water changes while using excel.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(A)narchy Love
The Fraternity of Dirt #2
nonconductive is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
Ok, I read a lot of stuff on plants, fertilizer, water changes, etc. I seem to get confusing info.

What determines how often water changes need to be done on a low light, low tech, no CO2 tank?

I was getting algae and was told I should not be doing weekly water changes because of fluctuating CO2. I used Excel for a while and was told I needed to do weekly water changes.

I sure didn't have all these algae problems with plastic plants and lots of fish, but the tank looks much better with the plants if you can ignore the algae!
redmary51 is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 36
This is a good question really. The answer is CO2/carbon. The idea with limited water changes is that you are trying to minimize CO2 fluctuations. The plants can not adapt as quickly as algae to changing CO2 levels so algae will be more likely to get a stranglehold. The plants also play a role in the filtration in these tanks helping to minimize the need for water changes. However, with this kind of tank you can not have a high fishload because the waste in the water would accumulate quicker than the plants can use it.

In dosing excel you are also keeping the CO2 (really organic carbon) levels constant by dosing excel daily. So you are using excel for your carbon source. I think excel is out of the water after 24 hours (it doesn't last long!). As a result you can keep somewhat higher fish loads and do water changes, nutrient uptake and growth will be increased due to the excel. Excel will keep the CO2/carbon constant and also may prevent algae.

Hoppy is right, CO2 even DIY, or excel will help your plants in your 50 gallon setup, the above tries to explain why that is the case. In my opinion it is difficult to do the low light no water change tank without a decent substrate as a nutrient source. You really do need to pay attention and supplement the tank. Root tabs can help, but they really don't replace a good substrate. The reason why CO2 enriched tanks can do well even with plain gravel is because many use EI and dose the water column with everything the plant needs and the number one need is CO2/carbon, so you can take care of other needs. Light and carbon are the number #1 needs for the plant. With lower light carbon is still very important, you just don't need as much as your would with a higher light setup.

Fred
fjf888 is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-01-2011, 07:16 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
150EH's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Churchton, Maryland
Posts: 5,370
There are some good articles about low tech tanks at here and at the Barr Report, when you do weekly water changes in a no CO2 tank the fresh water contains CO2 then they go 6 days without and the cycle repeats. Plants to better with constant CO2 or without CO2 at all with water changes every two months, look here http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...on-CO2-methods

And as Hoppy said your light is very low but I think it "IS" too low to grow plants, I think new higher watt bulbs would help in the 5,500 to 8,800 spectum if possible.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
150EH is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-02-2011, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 144
Thanks to both of you. That actually makes sense to me. I would really rather not mess with DIY CO2 if I can avoid it. I have Excel, but if fluctuating carbon will cause algae, when I go north for a few weekends this summer and the fish "fend for themselves", there will not be anyone to add Excel. Therefore, I'm thinking to try less water changes and no CO2.

As far as lights are concerned - -

Hoppy, what would you recommend as the best that won't cost me a fortune? I bought this one that someone on another forum told me would be enough. I have had it only about 6 months or less. They are 6500K bulbs. I'm thinking I can have my husband rig me up a way to hang clamp lights with CFL bulbs, 6500K. Maybe 2 or 3 of the brooder size clamp lights with the 100W equivalent bulbs (not sure how many watts they actually use right now)? Would that work? T5HO or T5NO? Not sure if they come in 36" lengths. What would be best for this 20-21" deep tank?
redmary51 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome