PMDD -- Is my list complete? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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PMDD -- Is my list complete?

I am new to the whole PMDD thing and want to make sure I have collected the right ingredients here.

1)MgSO4 (epsom salts)
2)KCl (NoSalt)
3)KNO3 (Grant's Stump Remover)
4)Mono (and di-)basic sodium phosphate (Fleet Emema)

--------------------
So, from the reading I've been doing, it seems that all I have left to worry about is an Fe and C source. I will be injecting CO2 (pressurized cylinder) and will aim for 20ppm. Fe (and traces) will come from Plantex CSM + B. Am I ok here, or should I add additional Fe? I've noticed the "Extra Iron" CSM+B and was wondering if that is any good.

On a slightly different, but still related note, I live in an area where the tap water is EXTREMELY hard and alkaline, so I will be using R/O water, which is very soft and pH=7. Will adding PMDD create a buffering capacity for the water, so the pH swings less(or none) from the injected CO2, or should I be adding something to increase the KH? Thanks.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 04:43 PM
 
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sounds like your PMDD list is complete. Hope it works for you. A lot of us don't do PMDD because it's not exact enough. You may not need nitrate or phosphate..but PMDD forces you to add it.
but some people have success with it, so it's worth a shot.

PMDD will not do anything for buffering, and pure R/O isn't good for fish or plants...you will need to add an RO buffer to bring it up to at least 3dKh or your CO2 injection will cause wild pH swings.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Really? I thought that PMDD was more exact than other "pre-mixed" solutions, since you know everything you're adding. Plus, I suppose if I don't need phosphate or nitrate, I could omit or decrease those amounts (probably will need the N to start with, as I won't have any fish in the tank to start).

What do you mean by RO buffer? I'm not quite sure what I would add to make it do this. I guess I assumed that adding the PMDD would be enough. I'm planning on keeping a south american-type biotope, but my tap water is simply too hard to be successful. That is why I have chosen to just buy bottled water (I have 2-5g bottles and its just a 20g aquarium). At $0.30/g its peanuts, but I might think of doing it another way if I was dealing with a bigger tank.

Anyone care to elaborate? Thank you all.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 07:08 PM
 
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Hhhmmmm, instead of using kcl (no salt), I use K2SO4 (all green) ... I think technically for our purposes we are looking for the potassium. But hey, I'm a newbie too. lol
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 07:18 PM
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How much light will you have on this 20g? PMDD is cool for smaller tanks, a 20g with high light pressurised C02, you may want to consider spending just a couple more dollars and getting individual fert's and using chuck's calculator or the like's, it would give you better control over what you are dosing. You will most likely need some KN03 with the high light C02.

Plantex CSM+B 1lb. Price: $8.59
KN03 Potassium Nitrate 1lb. Price: $2.17
KH2P04 Mono Potassium Phosphate 1lb. Price: $3.42
K2S04 Potassium Sulfate 1lb. Price: $2.17
Iron Chelate Price: $8.59
Magnesium Sulfate 1 lb. Price: $0.85
http://www.gregwatson.com/products.asp?cat=8

Just a thought!

Craig

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm debating on getting either the 55w PC or the 55wx2 PC both from ahsupply.com. the 55w would be 2.75 and the dual would be 5.5 wpg. I was planning on having some higher light plants --- Glossostigma for one, and I've read than it tends to grow "flatter" with higher light, which is what I want. I've read a lot and checked out greg watson's site -- impressive and good prices! Thanks for the price breakdown -- Looks like the price is right -- I hope UPS/USPS doesn't charge an arm & a leg for shipping several pounds of goods (since they are usually sold by the pound).

I have KNO3 in the form of Grant's Stump Remover, which I will be dosing in addition to whatever I choose to add. I may just order some K2SO4, along with CSM+B (extra iron option?) and combine these(maybe) with some of the stuff I already have. I'll be getting some good test kits, so as to not add too much and feed algae. I also know that the plants will use whatever nutrients they have built up for the first few weeks of setting the tank up, so any PMDD added during this time will be helping algae get a foothold. I'll be cautious here. Thank you for all the input and if anyone has any suggestions or other comments, I'm all ears (Ross Perot anyone?)

Last edited by ringram; 01-19-2005 at 09:44 PM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 07:50 PM
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Perot...lol what was his nickname? Jughead? haha he was cool. I liked some of his idea's, maybe not someone I want running the country but still....

Wow, if you go 5.5wpg you will definatly want some extra iron/chelate even!
and I wouldn't worry about feeding algae as long as you keep the plants growing.
Fill that 20g up with plants from the getgo, as many as you can cram in it, crank the lights and throw it the ferts, it will be a salad shooter.. lol

Good luck and keep us posted!

Craig

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-19-2005, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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I plan to. Thanks for the help. I'll take some pics with my digital camera and post them as soon as I get it setup and running. Cheers,
-Ryan

p.s. So, what exactly would I add to increase the KH of the water I will be adding(bottled)? I *could* add a smidge of tap water to give it some "body", although not much since the tap water is around pH8 KH12+ last I checked.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 09:18 AM
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KH of 12 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Mine runs around 7, and others here have a KH much higher. If you are planning on doing a 50% weekly water change, the bottled water is just another expense you don't really need. And don't worry much about the pH being high. When you start injecting CO2, the pH will come down as a result.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 04:43 PM
 
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BTW, I messed up. I think MgSO4 will actually contribute to your general hardness...but not carbonate hardness (alkalinity).

a KH of 12 will require more CO2 injection (more flow of CO2) since the water has a higher buffering capacity...however it also means that you'll have a very solid pH. once your CO2 rate is set, you'll be locked on target and can run it 24/7. no need for pH monitors or controllers.

As far as PMDD vs. non-PMDD...non-PMDD gives you ultimate control because you are ONLY dosing the ferts you need. You test the water and see nitrates are low but phosphates are good, then you can just dose nitrates. With PMDD, you end up dosing everything whether you need it or not, which could lead to too much of a nutrient, causing an imbalance...which results in algae.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2005, 05:03 PM
 
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Quote:
I think MgSO4 will actually contribute to your general hardness...but not carbonate hardness (alkalinity).
Correct, Mg only contributes to overall hardness or GH.

This article explains the Ca - Mg relationship.
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