Stupid or underdosing? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Stupid or underdosing?

Hello,

I just started a new high tech and heavily planted 17 Gallons tank and i want to get ferts right. From what i read on that type of tank you should aim for 10+ ppm of Nitrogen. First is that right?? Second if that is so, am i using the calculator correctly? It would suggest 50ml of dosing!

Thank you!!
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 06:01 AM
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Aim for 20+ ppm nitrogen for the week. If you dose 3x per week that's around 7 ppm per dose. Roughly speaking.

What are you dosing?

How are dosing?

As with most things in this hobby, it depends on... pretty much everything, lol!

Depending on what you're dosing 50 ml's seems really high though.

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Last edited by pauld738; 07-14-2020 at 06:02 AM. Reason: Clarity
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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@pauld738

Isn’t that the equivalent of about 88 NO3? Isn’t that too much? From what I understand this is EI method, over dosing. What about a leaner regime like 5-6 ppm? I’m confused. By the way I am dosing tropica specialized nutrition and on other tank I have been dosing once a week along with a water change. Also a guy at my local fish store told me to not dose potassium and nitrogen (basically saying to use tropica premium instead) in early days, which I am not conviced of, what do you think?
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 08:06 AM
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What light? How many hrs/intensity/ramping?

What type of plant?

Could be 8ppm 2x a week or it could need 15ppm 3x a week, itís all a very grey area, no such thing as one size fits all. You test and try to find a routine that at least keeps tank at 8-10ppm minimum but hopefully climbing to no more than 30ppm accumulation across the week when itís time to do your 50% water and reset levels in tank. Lather/rinse/repeat. Your source waters hardness can even have a effect on how much you dose. Measuring phosphate is also a good indicator if your dosing is keeping up with tanks needs.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 08:07 AM
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once the system is up and running, start dosing NPK and micros. ei philosophy is to provide plants with as much nutrients they would ever need. i along with many others dose leaner than ei levels. i dose 9-3-15ppm/week. growth is slower and with a stem dominated scape like mine, makes maintenance (trimming) less time consuming. buy the dry salts and mix your own. cheaper and you can tailor it to your tank. use rotala butterfly or some other nutrient calculator.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerbarbs99 View Post
@pauld738

Isnít that the equivalent of about 88 NO3? Isnít that too much? From what I understand this is EI method, over dosing. What about a leaner regime like 5-6 ppm? Iím confused. By the way I am dosing tropica specialized nutrition and on other tank I have been dosing once a week along with a water change. Also a guy at my local fish store told me to not dose potassium and nitrogen (basically saying to use tropica premium instead) in early days, which I am not conviced of, what do you think?

You are correct regarding the 88 NO3 - and yes, that would be too much.
Most of us work with the basic shortcut of N/P/K. You will likely find a lot of good information in https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...ng-thread.html


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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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@DaveKS


MY PLAN:

1: For light, I am thinking setting it at level 4 which would give about 70 PAR, middle reading for my tank and starting at 6 hours a day and going up 30 every other week until plants establish. Doing 4 hours peak and 1 hours each side 50%->100%.

2: For Co2, 20-30ppm

3. For dosing as of right now I am thinking NPKM tropica specialized nutrition. I am thinking 8ML a week which give 1.6ppm of nitrogen or 7ppm of nitrate. It's pretty much the ADA lean model. Is it enough? My soil is probably not as rich as amazonia aqua soil?


SPECS:

Tank dim: 24W 12L 14H
Light is Chihiros A-serie 601, 8000K sitting 2 inches above the tank. (See PAR reading below)
Filter is Eheim 2215, With coarse pad, Eheim bio media, Seachem purigen and fine filter floss.
Co2 injection

Dosing Tropica specialized nutrition NPKM


Light PAR level
This is taken from another hobbyist. The data is measured at 12 inches depth, middle of the tank.

Level 1: 8.5 PAR
Level 2: 30 PAR
Level 3: 49 PAR
Level 4: 70 PAR
Level 5: 90 PAR
Level 6: 105 PAR
Level 7: 130 PAR


Plant list

- Glossostigma
- Monte-carlo
- Crypto hobbit
- Staurogyne repens
- Lobelia Cardinalis
- Rotala vietnam
- Hygrophila Araguaia
- Pogostemon erectus
- Alternanthera Reineckii

Substrate

Will be using Seachem Flourite Substrate (Clay based soil)
@moke

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Originally Posted by moke View Post
once the system is up and running, start dosing NPK and micros. ei philosophy is to provide plants with as much nutrients they would ever need. i along with many others dose leaner than ei levels. i dose 9-3-15ppm/week. growth is slower and with a stem dominated scape like mine, makes maintenance (trimming) less time consuming. buy the dry salts and mix your own. cheaper and you can tailor it to your tank. use rotala butterfly or some other nutrient calculator.
I would probably have to get some K ferts. My tropica premixed has about 30% less K than nitrogen and the way I am seeing it around you should dose a bit more K? Is that right?


@Immortal1
Thank you!
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
You are correct regarding the 88 NO3 - and yes, that would be too much.
Most of us work with the basic shortcut of N/P/K. You will likely find a lot of good information in https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...ng-thread.html
And @Tigerbarbs99

88 NO3? Can you explain more?

Since there was little to go off of besides EI dosing I just assumed KNO3 in a standard 500 ml prep bottle.


I did ask what and how much. ;-)

Nevermind**. I said nitrogen when I really meant nitrate. My bad. :-)


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Last edited by pauld738; 07-14-2020 at 02:33 PM. Reason: My ah ha moment
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 02:53 PM
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Just as a reference on the above question


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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Just as a reference on the above question

I may have drank a little too much wine last night so my brain is a little foggy this morning.

Can you explain a little more? How it relates to my first post? :-)

My phone doesn't capture a good screenshot of what I'm looking at on rotalabutterfly.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 08:37 PM
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This would be minimum I would dose everyday (6x a week). More than likely once things get going youíll need to increase that by 20-30%.



A 300ml bottle of tropica will get you 25 doses.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauld738 View Post
I may have drank a little too much wine last night so my brain is a little foggy this morning.

Can you explain a little more? How it relates to my first post? :-)

My phone doesn't capture a good screenshot of what I'm looking at on rotalabutterfly.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerbarbs99 View Post
@DaveKS


I would probably have to get some K ferts. My tropica premixed has about 30% less K than nitrogen and the way I am seeing it around you should dose a bit more K? Is that right?


@Immortal1
Thank you!
tropica specialised nutrition has 1.3% n, 0.1% p, and k 1%, plus a number of traces. rotala butterfly does not have specialised nutrition specifically, but i used plant growth specialized (n 30% higher than k also). for a 15 gal tank and dosing 20ml i got:
n 4.72ppm p 0.35ppm k 3.63ppm
if you dose 3 times a week, you'll be below ei levels, but certainly not really lean, save for p.


if you really want to customize your fert routine, buy dry salts and mix your own solution. keep the tropica bottles and use the pump to dose. it will be tons cheaper. 300ml bottle sells for $15 (never mind the $27.00 shipping charge). you get 15 doses of 20 ml, 5 weeks worth. a pound of n, p, k, and traces will set you back about $25 and last over a year.

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This would be minimum I would dose everyday (6x a week). More than likely once things get going youíll need to increase that by 20-30%.

A 300ml bottle of tropica will get you 25 doses.
in other words, 4 and 1/6 weeks dosing, max.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauld738 View Post
I may have drank a little too much wine last night so my brain is a little foggy this morning.

Can you explain a little more? How it relates to my first post? :-)

My phone doesn't capture a good screenshot of what I'm looking at on rotalabutterfly.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Really was just noting how the 20ppm N (Nitrogen) you mentioned (I understand it was a simple mistake) relates to 88ppm NO3 (Nitrate) that Tigerbarbs99 noted.
Many of us use the N/P/K not thinking that N really means NO3.
Was pretty sure the 20 and 88 numbers were correct, but figured I would look in Rotalabutterfly to verify.
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Last edited by Immortal1; 07-14-2020 at 11:36 PM. Reason: <?>
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Really was just noting how the 20ppm N (Nitrogen) you mentioned (I understand it was a simple mistake) relates to 88ppm NO3 (Nitrate) that Tigerbarbs99 noted.
Many of us use the N/P/K not thinking that N really means NO3.
Was pretty sure the 20 and 88 numbers were correct, but figured I would look in Rotalabutterfly to verify.
Dang! I see it now.

Boy was I focused on Nitrate.

I will blame the wine. Probably won't be the last time ;-)

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-15-2020, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerbarbs99 View Post


My soil is probably not as rich as amazonia aqua soil?


Substrate

Will be using Seachem Flourite Substrate (Clay based soil)
Just a heads up if you're not aware of it, flourite is not soil. Think more like gravel, like clay that has been fired. It's basically inert with a low CEC (there are some studies that indicates it provides some micro nutrients to the plants.)
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