Does less potassium if using Equilibrium - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 02:32 PM
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@Asteroid I was going to mention to go see your tank, lol!

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My degassed pH this morning, after CO2 has been off for 14 hours, is 7.2, which I believe correlates to 7.5ppm of CO2. If my goal is 30 ppm CO2 during the day, then my pH should be about 6.6...
It's generally accepted now that those kh/pH tables for co2 concentrations have flaws in them so it's best not to focus on absolute numbers. Too many assumptions about unknowns. Especially with regard to starting co2 concentrations. Which is why you see people on here dropping pH by 1.5 and being successful.

In my tank it takes somewhere around 36-48 hours to fully degass. But I have fairly low flow. I don't worry about an air stone at night. I just know that my degassed pH is about 7.1 so I target 5.9/6.0ph during lights on for a drop of roughly 1.2, starting before lights start to ramp up and ending when the lights finish ramping down. And in my tank that seems to work fairly well. I had started with only a 0.5 pH drop but didn't like the results.

So with your tank, and a kh of 4 right now, I would say your degassed pH is probably higher than 7.2. And you are probably correct in saying that it's more like 7.6ph. A daytime pH of 6.6 would be real close to that 1.0ph drop. Depends on what your actual degassed pH is. If you can, it might be worthwhile to see if you can drop that even lower to a 1.2 drop, maybe even 1.5, or there abouts and see what happens. You could go even lower as the plants won't mind. The Amanos probably would though.

Speaking of which (I didn't catch your post), 70 degrees is at Amanos low end. Not something you would want to stay at. By itself it wouldn't do much but maybe in conjunction with everything else it might speed things up. Algae wise. Even 72 would help. My tank is right around 73 these days. It does get warmer in the summer months, which here in my part of California is any day now.

On a side note, I had my son clean out his 40 breeder last night and catch 2 fish that had been in there since I bought it off Craigslist awhile back. We are concentrating on raising shrimp in this tank. I forgot that they were Celestial Pearl Danios. When I got the tank it had a kh of 0.5 and a gh of 3. So yeah, Celestial Pearl Danios can handle a wide range of water parameters, lol!

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post #32 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 03:04 PM
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@Asteroid I was going to mention to go see your tank, lol!

In my tank it takes somewhere around 36-48 hours to fully degass. But I have fairly low flow. I don't worry about an air stone at night.
LOL,my tank is the same. Very little surface agitation, just slight movement from the lily pipe and my drop checker is still lime green in the morning after co2 being off all night. The surface agitation is a big factor on when and how much co2 you have to run. I don't know if all fish would be good with this, but my amanos, cherries and tetras are all good. Biggest problem I have is my kh moves up to 11 with all the seriyu stone, but for the most part I have tough plants in there and no sensitive stems.
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post #33 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Co2 is not in a fixed relationship with kH and pH in our tanks.

I'm assuming you are talking about the green / yellow / red kH/pH/CO2 chart?

It's a guideline only, and only assumes CO3 is the only thing affecting kH and CO2 is the only thing affecting pH, which is not the case in our tanks.


https://barrreport.com/threads/co2-ph-kh-table.10717/

If the pH in two of my other tanks (no CO2 injection) is any indication what my degassed pH will be, they are sitting at 8.1. My high tech is sitting at 7 and the drop checker is nowhere near lime green. CO2 has been on for four hours and my 100% photoperiod ends in an hour. Let me guess, drop checkers are worthless?

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post #34 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 07:45 PM
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If the pH in two of my other tanks (no CO2 injection) is any indication what my degassed pH will be, they are sitting at 8.1. My high tech is sitting at 7 and the drop checker is nowhere near lime green. CO2 has been on for four hours and my 100% photoperiod ends in an hour. Let me guess, drop checkers are worthless?


You should go off the tank with the CO2, because it's the one we need to know the relative drop. If I'm not mistaken, you are mixing tap and RO, and you are adjusting kH, so your degassed pH could be anything at this point.

Drop checkers are on a 2-3 hour delay, if its green, that was the level of CO2 in the water 2-3 hours ago.

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post #35 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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You should go off the tank with the CO2, because it's the one we need to know the relative drop. If I'm not mistaken, you are mixing tap and RO, and you are adjusting kH, so your degassed pH could be anything at this point.

Drop checkers are on a 2-3 hour delay, if its green, that was the level of CO2 in the water 2-3 hours ago.

I filled a container with 50/50 tap/RO and will check the pH tomorrow. Do I need to bring the kH up to 4? It is at 2.

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post #36 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 08:20 PM
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I filled a container with 50/50 tap/RO and will check the pH tomorrow. Do I need to bring the kH up to 4? It is at 2.
No, lower the better for plants (for the vast majority of them).

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post #37 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 08:27 PM
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If the pH in two of my other tanks (no CO2 injection) is any indication what my degassed pH will be, they are sitting at 8.1. My high tech is sitting at 7 and the drop checker is nowhere near lime green. CO2 has been on for four hours and my 100% photoperiod ends in an hour. Let me guess, drop checkers are worthless?
See this depends on when you take that pH measurement. Do those other tanks have plants in them?

If so, and unless you are running airstones or have a rolling boil at the surface, the pH is going to trend upwards.

As an example, I have a 4kh tank that moves roughly 0.5 pH from a low in the morning to a high in the evening. Next to no surface agitation makes that wide of a swing possible. It's also a dirty tank so it only hits 7.8 at the highest. At point early on I was getting about 8 in that tank after lights on. But 7.5 with lights off.

Maybe your 8.1 is an elevated number?

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post #38 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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No, lower the better for plants (for the vast majority of them).

Right, but my high tech tank is currently at a kH of 4, so shouldn't I bring my sample to a kH of 4 as well to measure degassed pH?

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See this depends on when you take that pH measurement. Do those other tanks have plants in them?

If so, and unless you are running airstones or have a rolling boil at the surface, the pH is going to trend upwards.

As an example, I have a 4kh tank that moves roughly 0.5 pH from a low in the morning to a high in the evening. Next to no surface agitation makes that wide of a swing possible. It's also a dirty tank so it only hits 7.8 at the highest. At point early on I was getting about 8 in that tank after lights on. But 7.5 with lights off.

Maybe your 8.1 is an elevated number?

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One of the tanks has only a sponge filter in it and two baby angelfish, and the other has a sand substrate, large piece of driftwood, a bunch of Vals growing in it, and angels, geophagus, corydora, and SAEs.
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post #39 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 08:51 PM
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Right, but my high tech tank is currently at a kH of 4, so shouldn't I bring my sample to a kH of 4 as well to measure degassed pH?
Take a sample of tank water and leave it out for 24 hours, or leave it out for a few hours with an airstone in it, then measure kH and pH.

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post #40 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Take a sample of tank water and leave it out for 24 hours, or leave it out for a few hours with an airstone in it, then measure kH and pH.

Ah, I see. Okay. I was confused because I thought you said to fill up a container with my TAP water and measure the pH the next day. That's why I was like what does my tap water have anything to do with my tank water? Haha.

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post #41 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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So, the idea is that for water with kH in the lower range, a pH drop of 1 or so should be equivalent to about 30ppm of CO2? I realize every tank is different and this won't hold true for everyone, but it's a good starting point and one should adjust according to how their tanks/plants respond. Is this accurate?

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post #42 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 02:54 PM
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So, the idea is that for water with kH in the lower range, a pH drop of 1 or so should be equivalent to about 30ppm of CO2? I realize every tank is different and this won't hold true for everyone, but it's a good starting point and one should adjust according to how their tanks/plants respond. Is this accurate?
It is true for most tanks, tanks with 0 kH / active substrates are trickier.

Usually, we can get to 1.2 - 1.4 on the high end after some adjusting. Consider keeping surface agitation higher when pushing CO2 that high, and consider running an airstone at night for a few hours when pushing CO2 that high.

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post #43 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 02:54 PM
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Kh doesn't really affect the amount of co2 in the water.
Probably best to not focus on absolute amounts and focus more on what the plants are doing.

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post #44 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-29-2020, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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It is true for most tanks, tanks with 0 kH / active substrates are trickier.

Usually, we can get to 1.2 - 1.4 on the high end after some adjusting. Consider keeping surface agitation higher when pushing CO2 that high, and consider running an airstone at night for a few hours when pushing CO2 that high.

Okay, here you go....


Degassed pH: 8.0 (kH = 4)
Gassed pH (CO2 on for 5 hours, lights at full intensity for 2 hours, kH = 4): 6.8


Do I need to back off the CO2 a little since I'm on a reduced photo period and trying to kill off this algae, or should I leave things as-is? Do I need to monitor my CO2 levels at night to ensure it doesn't go higher? I have pretty good surface agitation, so this hasn't really been an issue. Like I said before, my drop checker is usually a dark blue in the morning. If I'm losing that much CO2 overnight, then perhaps I have too much surface agitation? The goal is to keep the CO2 levels consistent 24/7, correct?

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post #45 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-30-2020, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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@Asteroid I was going to mention to go see your tank, lol!

In my tank it takes somewhere around 36-48 hours to fully degass. But I have fairly low flow. I don't worry about an air stone at night.
My apologies if this was already answered, but is the idea behind degassing at night because the plants don't need it when the lights go off and it would be a waste, or is it because the plants put off CO2 at night and you don't want your CO2 levels to get too high at night?

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@Asteroid I was going to mention to go see your tank, lol!

In my tank it takes somewhere around 36-48 hours to fully degass. But I have fairly low flow. I don't worry about an air stone at night.
I use a spray wand and a skimmer, so there's a good amount of surface ripple. I've been keeping the flow on the higher side to produce enough current to push the CO2 bubbles across the tank rather than them float up and out of the tank. I just ordered an in-line atomizer so that will no longer be an issue and I can reduce the water flow.

LOL,my tank is the same. Very little surface agitation, just slight movement from the lily pipe and my drop checker is still lime green in the morning after co2 being off all night. The surface agitation is a big factor on when and how much co2 you have to run.
I use a spray wand and a skimmer, so there's a good amount of surface ripple. I've been keeping the flow on the higher side to produce enough current to push the CO2 bubbles across the tank rather than them float up and out of the tank. I just ordered an in-line atomizer so that will no longer be an issue and I can reduce the water flow.

LOL,my tank is the same. Very little surface agitation, just slight movement from the lily pipe and my drop checker is still lime green in the morning after co2 being off all night. The surface agitation is a big factor on when and how much co2 you have to run. I don't know if all fish would be good with this, but my amanos, cherries and tetras are all good. Biggest problem I have is my kh moves up to 11 with all the seriyu stone, but for the most part I have tough plants in there and no sensitive stems.
My apologies if this was already answered, but is the idea behind degassing at night because the plants don't need it when the lights go off and it would be a waste, or is it because the plants put off CO2 at night and you don't want your CO2 levels to get too high at night?

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