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Leaves curl and lack color

5K views 34 replies 7 participants last post by  Deanna 
#1 · (Edited)
I have had a consistent problem with leaves curling since I moved to my new place. I also have had problems in many places (though in the same area of the country) where my stems turn black, then separate. I only have a few stems with that problem at the moment and they just wouldn't show up in my pictures.

I had a past thread where someone identified it as a calcium deficiency. I don't have a Ca test kit, but I started using Seachem Equilibrium as a calcium source. I got that advice for the lack of color in my plants originally, then again when I posted about stems turning black and the tops (and sometimes in the middle) separating from the plant. At that point in time, I was not using a TDS meter. I would do two table spoons. I found on occasion, I would loose a fish during a water change, especially those who like lower PH.

My TDS meter fell in the tank so I need to get another one, but I found in general, this raised my TDS about 300ppm so I felt that was too much. These are some tests that are typical for me, given what I have to test with my kits:

My parameters in tank are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrate: 10-20 (correction)
PH: Maxed out on both pH and high range pH (without CO2)
KH: around 11 degrees
GH: around 8 degrees
TDS: 400

Out the tap:
PH: Maxed out on both pH and high range pH
KH: 1 to none, hard to test
GH: 8 degrees
TDS: 80-90

I know other people have had leaves curling but it seems the black stems don't happen often. They don't happen to me when adding Equilibrium, but I feel I may be adding too much, maybe there is a better solution here.

I don't have much algae but I have a little bit over everything at this exact moment. A tiny amount of BBA, a small amount of diatoms, green dust on glass but not major, and a bit of staghorn. None concerning or overbearing.

Other note, I get BGA like crazy whenever I start a new tank. I just treat it with EM and it typically never comes back. I only mention it because this also seems not typical. I mean every tank with CO2 I have ever done. It almost never comes back.

I am just hoping to find a solution. I believe the lack of color is associated with this because I can get great colors in my low tech tanks that are not low tech plants, I can get great color in my high tech by starving them of nutrients, but that is short term.

Here is what the curls look like, I will try to get a picture of a black stem when it is in a place more easily photographed. Notice how some leaves have the "bottom" facing the surface.

EDIT: Sorry for the sideways pic, I don't know how to fix this. If I rotate it on my phone, or in other software I have in Windows, it stays sideways. Also, a black stem pic I found, which is sideways as well:
 

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#2 ·
Let's start at the top: light and CO2, although both seem good. Are you certain of your CO2 ppm (how do you know)? Do you have high quality light (PAR and PUR)?

From there, I'd move on to nutrients. What are you dosing (quantity and frequency)? What is your PO4 reading? Will also need to know your tank size and type of substrate.

I think you are saying they were ok when you were dosing Equilibrium. Your tap looks fine regarding GH (Ca and Mg) so, as you mentioned, you probably don't need the extra Ca and Mg. However, Equilibrium also contains a lot of potassium. Curling/cupping leaves can be a sign of potassium deficiency and, suspending the Equlibrium, without adding K, could be a problem. It's hard to take guesses until we know everything that you are dosing.

Is your circulation good (all parts of all plants showing some movement)?
 
#3 ·
Light-Current Satellite Pro. Par is reasonable, not high, supposedly PUR is not wonderful (PUR is new to me, was out of the aquarium hobby for a few years when it became a more common measurement)
Dosing-Following EI based on 10-20 gallon (plus Equalibrium at 1-2 tablespoons per week, depending on stems blacking or curl, 1 to start). Micros/macros every other day, tank gets dosed daily
Do not have a PO4 test kit-Is this important to have? What is a good target if I buy one.
Tank Size-ADA 60p/20H equivalent
CO2-Only using a drop checker but in the mid lime green to almost yellow, only way to gauge it.
Flow is great-Two Eheims, a 2215 and 2213 (overkill I know), plus a AC 30 as my early tanks used HOB and I found I could run a higher level of CO2 safely, but I am not sure it will stay
Substrate-Used Aqua soil and new potting soil capped with fine black gravel. I didn't intend on this and I am typically not a fan of soil in these conditions. My reason for doing so is as simple as I bought some rocks, loved what I came up with, and was concerned that if I emptied the tank and started over, I couldn't replicate the scape. Cap is 1 inch, the AS is probably nutrient deprived, and the soil is various, so hard to say exactly what it is.
 
#5 ·
It’s hard to tell if this is a toxic substrate issue or a mobile nutrient issue. I’ll let @DaveKS work with you to sift through the substrate possibility, as I use only inert substrate and haven’t messed (because it’s messy) with dirted tanks in a very long time.

Lack of sufficient light could be a problem and it may be more driven by crowding than your light source. The pictures would indicate overcrowding. Conversely, high light without sufficient mobile nutrients could also cause the plant to rob nutrients from older growth in order to shift it to the new growth. I’m guessing you have plenty of light on that sized tank.

I would still like to know exactly what you are dosing. Although you probably have enough PO4, most of us do monitor it as it can be a problem if under-dosed (particularly for root development) and it is a macro. The API kit is ok, although I prefer the Salifert for < 3ppm levels and the API for >3ppm. Start with the API - it’s cheap.

With stems, one way I use to test to see if light/crowding/circulation is a problem, is to cut the top off of one of them and re-plant it in an area of the substrate having no other plantings within about 4-inches of it. Then see if it grows normally over a few weeks. following that, I make suspected adjustments and repeat the process.

It also sounds like you are erratic with the Equilibrium dosing
Equalibrium at 1-2 tablespoons per week, depending…
Plants don’t like varying parameters, so you’ll need to keep all dosing consistent. I still think you probably don’t need Equilibrium, given your tap levels. However, you will need to add K separately if you decide to suspend Equilibrium dosing.
 
#6 ·
Either your nitrate testing is off or your dosing is... if you are dosing EI levels, I would expect a higher Nitrate test, more so in the 20-40 range.

If using API, make sure you shake bottle 2 very well, bang it against a table/wall, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
You were asked:
From there, I'd move on to nutrients. What are you dosing (quantity and frequency)? What is your PO4 reading? Will also need to know your tank size and type of substrate.
Dosing-Following EI based on 10-20 gallon (plus Equalibrium at 1-2 tablespoons per week, depending on stems blacking or curl, 1 to start). Micros/macros every other day, tank gets dosed daily
when you suspect a nutrient problem you need to start by taking a detailed look at your fertilizer. In my experience most nutrient issues start with the fertilizer. Manufactures typically don't include all the 14 essential elements plants need to grow. They anticipate the rest will come from your tap water or fish food. Unfortunately these are variable and will change depending on the utility water source and the seasonal rain fall.

EI dosing is more of a method than a recipe. We need to know what products you are using. If using dry salts we need to know which salts you are using. And we need to know how much of each you are dosing. You have not provided all of this information

Furthermore there is something starange with your water test results:My parameters in tank are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrate: 10-20 (correction)
PH: Maxed out on both pH and high range pH (without CO2)
KH: around 11 degrees
GH: around 8 degrees
TDS: 400

Out the tap:
PH: Maxed out on both pH and high range pH
KH: 1 to none, hard to test
GH: 8 degrees
TDS: 80-90
Note your tap water starts out with a KH of 1 but then in the tank it goes to a KH of 11. But the GH stays the same. If you are dosing equilibrium the GH would not be the same. Also equilibrium will not change KH.

I am guessing your utility water GH is mainly form Calcium carbonate with maybe a small amount of some magnesium sulfate. However when the water is filtered and treated Chlorine is added to strerilize the water. Later the excess chlorine reacts with the carbonate to form calcium chloride (which is safe for plants and fish).

When the water gets to your tap it still have the same GH but very little KH. Because the carbonate was destroyed by the chlorine. Then in your tank you might have higher consumption of Chlorine than normal due to healthy bacteria and plant growth converting much of your GH back to KH. High sulfate consumption would then boost your KH to a level higher than it was in your tap.

Equilibrium would help by boosting the sulfate (sulfur is a necesassary nutrient) level of the tank. But it doesn't provide chlorine. Note a chlorine deficiency will cause black tissue damage based on photos I Have seen. If I am correct you might be able to solve the problem by dosing a fixed amount of potassium chloride and potassium sulfate once a week at the water change.

This is my guess as to what is going on. But I wouldn't take action based on this guess. I could be wrong. I would recommend you get a lab test done on your tank water when the problem occurs. And then another test of the tank when the the problem is not present. This would tell you how the chemistry changes. IF any plant nutrient reads zero your tank is deficient in that nutrient and the level of that nutrient will need to be increased. The full list of plant nutrients is N, K, Ca, Mg, P, S, CL, Fe, Mn, B, Zn, Cu, Mo, Ni. You don not want a zero in any of these. I would pay close attention to Mg, Ca, S, and Cl I have used this test:
https://www.amazon.com/ICP-Analysis-Elemental-Water-Test/dp/B071HVPBVD/ref=sxin_0_sxwds-bia-wc1_0?cv_ct_cx=icp-analysis&keywords=icp-analysis&pd_rd_i=B071HVPBVD&pd_rd_r=e8acaf54-eb0e-4a8c-9800-5f4d19ba8db2&pd_rd_w=CbTVA&pd_rd_wg=pkoCx&pf_rd_p=e308a38c-3620-4845-b486-18a551828bb6&pf_rd_r=WRB3Q3EC9Z6ERW0PYK8J&psc=1&qid=1580063763&sr=1-1-e1d37225-97ae-4506-b802-4ca5ff43ebe6

One test costs $30 and you will get a link to your test results in a week.
 
#10 ·
You were asked:




when you suspect a nutrient problem you need to start by taking a detailed look at your fertilizer. In my experience most nutrient issues start with the fertilizer. Manufactures typically don't include all the 14 essential elements plants need to grow. They anticipate the rest will come from your tap water or fish food. Unfortunately these are variable and will change depending on the utility water source and the seasonal rain fall.

EI dosing is more of a method than a recipe. We need to know what products you are using. If using dry salts we need to know which salts you are using. And we need to know how much of each you are dosing. You have not provided all of this information

Furthermore there is something starange with your water test results:My parameters in tank are:


Note your tap water starts out with a KH of 1 but then in the tank it goes to a KH of 11. But the GH stays the same. If you are doing equilibrium the GH would not be the same. Also equilibrium will not change KH.

I am guessing your utility water GH is mainly form Calcium carbonate with maybe a small amount of some magnesium sulfate. However when the water is filtered and treated Chlorine is added to strerilize the water. Later the excess chlorine reacts with the carbonate to form calcium chloride (which is safe for plants and fish).

When the water gets to your tap it still have the same GH but very little KH.Because the carbonate was destroyed by the chlorine. Then in your tank you might have higher consumption of Chlorine than normal due to healthy bacteria and plant growth converting much of your GH back to KH. High sulfate consumption would then boost your GH to a level higher than it was in your tap.

Equilibrium would help by boosting the sulfate (sulfur is a necesassary nutrient) level of the tank. But it doesn't provide chlorine. Note a chlorine deficiency will cause black tissue damage based on photos I Have seen. If I am correct you might be able to solve the problem by dosing a fixed amount of potassium chloride and potassium sulfate once a week at the water change.

Thisis my guess as to what is going on. But I wouldn't take action based on this guess. I could be wrong. I would recommend you get a lab test done on your tank water when the problem occurs. And then another test of the tank when the the problem is not present. This would tell you how the chemistry changes. IF any plant nutrient reads zero your tank is deficient in that nutrient and the level of that nutrient will need to be increased. The full list of plant nutrients is N, K, Ca, Mg, P, S, CL, Fe, Mn, B, Zn, Cu, Mo, Ni. You don not want a zero in any of these. I have used this test:
https://www.amazon.com/ICP-Analysis-Elemental-Water-Test/dp/B071HVPBVD/ref=sxin_0_sxwds-bia-wc1_0?cv_ct_cx=icp-analysis&keywords=icp-analysis&pd_rd_i=B071HVPBVD&pd_rd_r=e8acaf54-eb0e-4a8c-9800-5f4d19ba8db2&pd_rd_w=CbTVA&pd_rd_wg=pkoCx&pf_rd_p=e308a38c-3620-4845-b486-18a551828bb6&pf_rd_r=WRB3Q3EC9Z6ERW0PYK8J&psc=1&qid=1580063763&sr=1-1-e1d37225-97ae-4506-b802-4ca5ff43ebe6

One test costs $30 and you will get a link to your test results in a week.
Ferts: GLA

Following this guide:
10- 20 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/8 tsp KN03 (N) 3x a week
+/- 1/32 tsp KH2P04 (P) 3x a week
+/- 1/32 tsp Plantex CSM
50% weekly water change

My teaspoons likely are not exact, but closest I could do.

I also have Fe but not using it right now.

I can retest the KH and GH, I wasn't home so I just copied and pasted out of my journal but I haven't really been doing any different from that time.

As per the equalibrium, I do want to note that it was never my idea to do so, for good or for bad, someone suggested it at some point when I had stems turning black much more often than I do now and it stopped it. The reason I may do double is when I see a black stem. Any less doesn't seem to do the trick. I dose it dry right after a water change. If my stems haven't been trimmed, and growing rapidly, I may see the beginning of it turning black before it separates and add another tablespoon of it.

I will consider the link to the test but often, someone chimes in who has experienced the same issue as me, especially in my own region as many members are around the Bay Area.


Furthermore, I am not set on EI dosing, it was just something that I started probably 10 or more years ago when either used an expensive, off the self product, or Tom Barr explained his way. There were a few other people who created routines but they were not widely accepted. It is just what I have done.
 
#11 ·
Hi @talontsiawd,

If your tap water is 8.0 dGH and your tank water is 8.0 dGH you can't be adding very much Seachem Equilibrium or the dGH in the tank would be higher. One (1) teaspoon of Equilibrium per 10 gallons of water increases the hardness of a tank by about 1.0 dGH. How much water do you change every week (in gallons) and how much Equilibrium to you add per week?

I see only a couple of signs of a calcium (Ca) issue in the pictures. I do see the dying stem in the first photo and in both photos it seems you are loosing leaves shortly after they mature even when sufficient light seems to be present indicating premature leaf loss. Weak stems that are easily attacked by fungus, leaves where the margins 'curl' (either upwards or downwards) with a "cupping' effect, and premature leaf loss are all symptoms of insufficient available magnesium. This can be caused by either insufficient magnesium being available to the plant or another nutrient (such as high levels of calcium or potassium) impeding the uptake of magnesium by the plant.
 
#12 ·
I should probably retest these levels, just to be sure. Please let me know what tests would be helpful to redo.

As far as water changes, I do 6 gallons per week. My tank 17 gallons but with my hardscape, I think that adds around 1.5 gallons and my substrate is at least 1.5 gallons (or more on both), so I treat it like it is a 12 gallon tank.
 
#13 ·
Hi @talontsiawd,

And how much Equilibrium do you add after each water change?

Determining magnesium levels in my tanks involves me do a dGH reading and a calcium ppm reading (I use API for dGH and Salifert for calcium) and then calculating the magnesium ppm from there.
 
#18 ·
Hi @talontsiawd,

And how much Equilibrium do you add after each water change?

Determining magnesium levels in my tanks involves me do a dGH reading and a calcium ppm reading (I use API for dGH and Salifert for calcium) and then calculating the magnesium ppm from there.
Hi @talontsiawd,

So, did your retest your dGH of the tank and tap water?

How much Equilibrium do you add after every water change?
 
#14 ·
Leaf rolling is also often caused by environmental factors such as very bright light, a prolonged dip in temperature or a sudden change in water chemistry. If the water current is too strong, leaves will sometimes roll up. I'd focus on the dark (rotting?) stems.

Whatever you do (add more Mg or add more K), just make one change at a time, do it consistently and watch the response over a few weeks. While doing so, maintain all other inputs at a consistent level. I also think that topping a stem and planting it in an isolated area will help determine if light, circulation and crowding are involved. I'd also look into the substrate health possibility, even as a separate issue, as @DaveKS mentioned.
 
#15 ·
ollowing this guide:
10- 20 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/8 tsp KN03 (N) 3x a week
+/- 1/32 tsp KH2P04 (P) 3x a week
+/- 1/32 tsp Plantex CSM
50% weekly water change
In my experience any essential plant nutrient that is not in your fertilizer is very likely deficient in your aquarium.

There is no sulfur in your fertilizer recipe. Plants need almost as much S and P. Also Planted CSM doesn't have B (Boron) many aquarium fertilizer manufactures add Boron to it and often call it CSM+B. If you punched it from GLA I would it does have boro. Can you confirm that? Also CSM has FeEDTA which degrade at a PH greater than 6.5. Fe DTPA is good up to a PH of 7.5 and maybe 8. Fe Gluconate is not sensitive to PH but it it has to be dosed more frequently because bacteria can degrade it quickly before plants get to it. However at this time I see no indications of a iron issue so I would continue to use CSM for now.

You could add a little magnesium sulfate to boost sulfur as well as magnesium levels. Another option is to add potassium sulfate. it would add potassium and sulfur. i don't see any reason to add more potassium but adding more magnesium or potassium would not hurt either. And if it works you wouldn't need the equilibrium. you could start out targeting 5ppm Mg or if you decide to use potassium sulfate 5ppm K . You could easily go higher if needed.
 
#16 ·
In looking at your journal I am 100% convinced that you built a anoxic/anaerobic time bomb and it’s now causing all or at least some of your problems. Even timeline fits where these problems reared up about 2-3 mo after flooding tank.

1. Bad circulation, you have absolutely zero high->low circulation in tank that will push micro-currents/oxygen into substrate. You need a spray bar on back wall blowing down back glass pushing about 100gph directly at that deepest soil area. Only thing that canister nozzle is doing is moving water around top 1/3 of the tank, you need both in there.

2. Soil way to deep at back. There is a reason why 2” is max recommend depth for soil, 1.5” being the norm. Then you put big rocks on top of it which further blocked surface area of and circulation into substrate. Also, unless you built inert piles of rock under rocks to support their weight the rocks have also compacted the soil underneath them, further impeding circulation thought those areas.

You should have built lighting louvre racks up to build up stones to specific height and position, covered them with a couple layers of fiberglass window screen then poured the recommended amounts of soil and sand in between rocks to avoid deep/hard anaerobic pockets. Symptoms of detrimental anaerobic activity (high levels of organics and no circulation, not all anaerobic activity is bad) are plants rotting at stems, misshapen leaves/lower leaves falling off and uncontrollable algae growth.

3. Your carpet did great for a while till time bomb went off. Dry start, things do great because whole substrate layer is in aerobic conditions, but once you flooded tank and didn’t supply adequate high->low circulation in tank you lit the fuse. When carpet plants fill in as a dense mat they also block circulation into substrate, their little short roots will provide some oxygenation into very top layers but even those will soon succumb to anoxic poisonings coming up from below. Even the stem plants roots couldn’t overcome the festering sewer that was brewing beneath them. You also further blocked circulation into substrate with dense planting you added as a afterthought.

You saw this happen in your tank, nice carpet then boom, big die off about 2-3months in. Once parts of carpet died off and areas of substrate became open to water the die off slowed and those patches are hanging in there but they still are not doing well because of toxic nature of your substrate/soil.

If you do try to fix this with spraybar or nozzle pointed at deep area at back you can expect a big purge of noxious substances once you setup that flow. Be ready with 50% water changes a couple hours after you set it up and then everyday for next 5days and then probably twice a week for next couple weeks. I takes a while for proper aerobic/anaerobic balance to be restored and soil to purge itself. Algae will go nuts if you don’t and shrimp will go into distress and die. If you want I can tell you how to build a vent into that deep layer.

Also your mixing of EI full strength dosing and use of a fertile soil substrate layer are at odds to me, if you have fertile substrate with high CEC value you should only need 1/3 EI, PPS Pro or ADA style dosing.
 
#24 ·
I’m getting a little confused here. In your first post, you stated that you have 8 dGH from your tap and now you have zero? Is it that variable all the time? If you are at zero now, it would indicate a water softener that is malfunctioning. You may want to talk to the owner/manager to find out what is going on. If a softener is involved, there should be virtually no sodium coming through. Most of it is washed down the drain following the ion exchange process.

Another point of confusion: you have about 17 gallons of water and are adding 6-12 ppm (1-2 tablespoons of Equilibrium) of Mg a week (plus any from your variable tap) …and that is not enough magnesium!? It is certainly enough potassium. With 40% w/c’s, that would accumulate to 15-30 ppm Mg (with no plant uptake) in about a month. There is no way your plant mass is uptaking more than about 3-5 ppm Mg a week and that is being generous.

To satisfy yourself, you should determine your Mg levels. Buy API’s Ca test kit and, with your GH numbers, you can then calculate Mg levels. We can tell you how to do this if you need help with it. I have a suspicion that your ferts are out of whack after adding so much equilibrium.

I am still more inclined to think that the substrate is heavily involved in your issue and would suggest at least trying @DaveKS suggestions, in the meantime.

If you want I can tell you how to build a vent into that deep layer.
I’d be interested in your substrate venting technique, if you wouldn’t mind detailing it.
 
#20 ·
Hi @talontsiawd,

If your dKH=0 out of the tap, and your dGH=0 out of the tap, then I have to assume your water supply is coming through a water softener......is that correct?
 
#27 ·
Since you are now dependent upon your tap (no more RO), before making a water change you may want to test the tap for GH and TDS to make sure it is consistent with the tap water of the previous water change. Stabilizing your source water may help. Sounds like you have a nightmare going on with that water and since you don't trust it to drink, it may not be good to put it in your fish tank. Since you only change ~6 gals a week, you might benefit from a simple water filter (that you could also use for drinking water). Something like the BWT Premium Water Filter, which adds Mg. For ~$6 a week, you could also buy 6 gals of distiiled water. Also, you may want to to test your tap to see if there are any bad actors in it such as toxic levels of heavy metals. As @Surf would recommend, this test is cheap and good enough: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B071HVPBVD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm wondering if your tap has a toxic level of something and the heavy dosing of K, Mg and Ca, from the Equilibrium, is helping to block it from being consumed by the plants. If you decide/determine that the tap is bad, I'd do a reset of the tank with whatever solution you pick with several 80% w/c's.
 
#28 ·
I am not saying my water is terrible, I just get red stains in the tub and on my shower curtain (over a long period of time). I drink the water, just after it has been filtered by my refrigerator. I have planned on putting something inline before my facet in the kitchen (which would prefilter my drinking water before the other filter) which may do something for the tank, who knows.

RO isn't out of the question, an RO unit is not going to happen but I can get it from LFS. Just lugging 10 gallons of water up through many doors and having very little storage, it has to be a must before I can commit to it.

I will look into that test, and try to get a CA test by the weekend.
 
#33 ·
If your dKH=0 out of the tap, and your dGH=0 out of the tap, then I have to assume your water supply is coming through a water softener......is that correct?
If you had a water softener your KH would be very high and your GH would ve very low or zero. Your current water parameters are consistent with rain water.You state you are a condo owner. HOA don't put in one water softener for the entire complex. It would be very expensive.


If his location is up to date, then he lives merely 15-20 miles away from me and our water comes from the same source.

I also recently had a significant problem with twisted leaves. Kinda happened all of a sudden after a water change. My soft water loving plants were happy though.

What I found was a change in my tap water. KH is usually 3-5 and GH usually 4-5. Likely because of the usual summer drought then sudden surge of rain in winter, our water got really soft.
Also, you may want to to test your tap to see if there are any bad actors in it such as toxic levels of heavy metals. As @Surf would recommend, this test is cheap and good enough: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
If your water is changing that much that quickly I don't know how valuable a test would-be. The levels on nutrients in the tank could change dramatically after each water change. The water can be very hard with toxic levels of some nutrient. However the next week you might have water deficient in several nutrients. And at a minimum with would take several days to get the test results. And at worst a full week to get the them .

Rapid changes in water however likely your problem. While I have been aware that water change like this can happen. I never expected it would occur as rapidly as it did according to vvDO indicated. Most advise regarding aquarium depends on your tap water being resonably stable and consistent. If it isn't it can be very had to get consistantly good plant growth. About the only way to deal with this is to measure GH and KH before each water change and then add a GH booster as necessary to maintain a stable GH. Doable but you have to test once a week or which takes time and then calculate the dose needed to get to your target GH and then mix everything and do the water change.

another option is to install RO filter and fill a bucket with a RO and then add a fixed amount of GH booster to it and then do the water change. That eliminates the extra testing. And you will nougat any seasonal changes in GH and KH.

Most under sink RO systems don't take up that much space and they can produce about 25 gallons a day. Most don't have a storage tank for that much water but if you have enough space you can get a pressurize tank separately. Or you could put enough in a bucket after a day or two for the next water change. This is what I do for my small tank.

There are also Larger RO units like RO buddy which can produce 50 to 100 gallons of water a day. And you don't have to install it under the sink. Although I don't have this system I have read that it can be quickly connected to and outdoor faucet or a sink and then another line in the sink for the brine disposal and one line to your storage container or tank. In few hours you would have enough for a water change.
https://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4565&ref=4395&subref=AA&cmpid=PLA-_-GS-_-NB&gclid=CjwKCAiA98TxBRBtEiwAVRLquwQIoDr-acTME5m9x-ACi-pVdankP9oGSEY9-mUJI8j_0eYdR59qsBoCSYEQAvD_BwE
 
#34 ·
If you had a water softener your KH would be very high and your GH would ve very low or zero. Your current water parameters are consistent with rain water.You state you are a condo owner. HOA don't put in one water softener for the entire complex. It would be very expensive.


Rapid changes in water however likely your problem. While I have been aware that water change like this can happen. I never expected it would occur as rapidly as it did according to vvDO indicated. Most advise regarding aquarium depends on your tap water being resonably stable and consistent. If it isn't it can be very had to get consistantly good plant growth. About the only way to deal with this is to measure GH and KH before each water change and then add a GH booster as necessary to maintain a stable GH. Doable but you have to test once a week or which takes time and then calculate the dose needed to get to your target GH and then mix everything and do the water change.


Most under sink RO systems don't take up that much space and they can produce about 25 gallons a day. Most don't have a storage tank for that much water but if you have enough space you can get a pressurize tank separately. Or you could put enough in a bucket after a day or two for the next water change. This is what I do for my small tank.
My location is accurate so my water is likely the same as the previous poster as we don't have a lot of water district in my area. In a state where we have massive drought, then massive rain, I don't really know how that changes things, especially since unlike a smaller city, we have many water reservoirs and I don't know how it all works. Just going online real quick, we have many in the area, but also have some 90 miles away in the mountains. That's why I haven't relied heavily on test kits as I have never felt like my water is consistent as the early books I read, or what I now read online. I know that in the past, I have had changes in my parameters from the same water source, when I tracked things more concisely, but rarely did that help me make better decisions. That said, did my water change? Well, I did one test wrong, but others right and they changed, and in the same time period, I just don't know how rapidly. I do know I had some really vibrant reds only 2 months ago and now they are far from that color.

I know nothing about water softeners but my first guess is, my HOA wouldn't add them, and if they existed previously, I would imagine they would take them out, our HOA got higher than we wanted so any unnecessary cost and maintenance, we would cut out. I can still ask, but it's hard to get that info easily.


As for an RO unit here, its a little tough. I have about 650 ft, not including a long hall way, in a one bedroom, with no outdoor plumbing and its not really an option to me, unless I want to fight my HOA, and pay companies I don't trust, who do what seems to be work that requires constant repairs, at a higher cost than other plumbers (I inquired for much more minor plumbing work and it was stupid expensive).

If I do RO, it will be from my LFS. Even a 5 gallon container is hard, my closet shelves are too short and up higher (which is a concern in CA with Earthquakes) and I don't want them out in the open. If it is a must, I would do it.

At the end of the day, its not that my plants are not growing or my tank is really suffering, not at all. My coloration is just not what I want. I trim 1/2 of a gallon pitcher regularly.
 
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