Dry ferts ei combo in Canada - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Dry ferts ei combo in Canada

I did some searching but couldn't find anything recent so decided to start a new thread.

I want to start ei dosing and am looking at ordering my basic fertilizers from this link :

https://theplantguy.ca/collections/f...ve-index-combo

I am curious of anyone's opinion on this 'kit' and if there are any other products or additions I should consider before ordering. Through my looking around I've found the plant guys site easy to navigate and have seen they've been around for along time so feel comfortable ordering from them. I'd just like to make sure there aren't any nutrients missing from that combo that I should be ordering as well. I also won't consider ordering across the line unless it's fully legit and above board shipping as even to order from this Canadian retailer I'm having to provide ID and info. I don't want to risk any hassle with customs/border as I like to travel to the USA.

I feel a little behind the eight ball as I've been running co2 since Boxing Day and according to the rotala butterfly calculator I'm not dosing near enough of the tropica specialized I have on hand, so I've been upping my dosing and will burn through what I have in no time at this rate.

Quick rundown as I've not setup a journal yet.

45g moderately planted and stocked with injected co2.

Thanks for any comments and responses.

45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-04-2020, 05:23 PM
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GH booster if you are re-mineralizing RO water.
K2SO4 if you want any extra potassium.

What is your GH of your tank?
Tap water only? GH of tap?
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-05-2020, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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I strictly use tap water which is municipal chlorinated water of seemingly good quality. Odourless, colourless, great tasting to drink straight from the tap as I have for nearly a decade which would be nearly the exact age of the water treatment plant/reservoir it comes from up the mountain from me. I dechlorinate for changes. I am right now in the process of switching over to aging my change water vs straight from the tap python changes I've been doing previously. Had no deaths or plant issues from the straight tap changes but I've seen 'gas' stressing of some fish on change day so that inspired the change to ageing.

I'm seeing tap and tank gh of 60ppm/3.6dgh. I am using the Hagen liquid test kit and this has been consistent over nearly a month since I got the kit. Current reading this morning is tap vs tank with 8days since last 50% water change(I'm a day late on my weekly).

I don't know if Kh is relevant at all but Kh is pretty consistently 30ppm/1.7dkh as best I can tell with the liquid test kit for both tap and tank. Tank was maybe only 20ppm this morning but to close to call really 20-30ppm. Very close to the tap.

I'm finding the ei stuff a little daunting/technical but I'm committed to sorting it out and learning. Thanks for the help.

Well short of any other input I believe I'll just get the basic combo I linked and go from there. Just was trying to cover my bases and make sure I'm on the right path.

45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 01:55 AM
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I can't speak to Canadian regulatory law, but the combo mix is described as CSM+B, one of the popular combo mix types, and looks like it has a pretty standard makeup. I use the Nilocg version of CSM+B in my own tank.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the response.

I ordered the ei combo and I added the k2s04 as well as some root tabs as the shipping was all the same. Also picked up some aquascaping tools as well as again the shipping was just a flat rate so seemed more worthwhile to throw on a few extra things. That's my wife's logic coming through. Saving money by spending. Lol.
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45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020, 08:04 PM
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The Canadian CSM + B is not the same as the American one! The agricultural products company that makes it is PlantProd and the product they sell in Canada is not the same as the one sold in the States and when I tried to sort this out some time ago I found that PlantProd's website will not alert you to this, they just direct to you to the product page based one whether you're accessing the page from Canada or a different country. If you look at PlantGuy's ingredient list: It matches what I get when I visit: https://www.plantprod.com/micronutrients/ and click on "Chelated Micronutrients". This is the US product I think: https://www.plantprod.com/product/pl...utritrace-csm/.

Key takeaways are:
1) On the RotalaButterfly calculator you want "PlantProd Chelated" in Canada NOT "PlantProd Micro Mix" and NOT "Plantex CSM + B".


2) Canadian CSM + B has no Magnesium, unlike the US version, so you probably want to pick ups some epsom salts from Bulk Barn or somewhere like that. I add a gram per gallon of water change water.

As an aside, the Canadian mix actually already has Boron in it so it doesn't have to have borax mixed in (that's why CSM + B has the "+ B", because in the States someone has to add the B later as an aftermarket accessory)
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020, 08:42 PM
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Has been talked about here https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...nk-inside.html

GLA appears to have the Canada mix that is no longer available in US.

I'l

Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkinturtle View Post
2) Canadian CSM + B has no Magnesium, unlike the US version, so you probably want to pick ups some epsom salts from Bulk Barn or somewhere like that. I add a gram per gallon of water change water.
Mg not a big deal if your are watching your GH levels or re-mineralizing RO water.
The meat & potatoes of this mix is the same as NutriTrace in US.
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Last edited by Darkblade48; 01-15-2020 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 03:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the input. The ferts just arrived today so I'm just wrapping my head around thing. @snarkinturtle I've found whether I enter plantprod chelates or plantprod micromix into the rotala calculator the dose amount is exactly the same either way? I do soak nearly all my food in a Epsom salt solution so the tank gets a tiny bit of Epsom salts that way. I could easily add some during water changes as I have plenty.

I plan to do a big water change this weekend and start the ei. Probably not until Sunday though. Just going to fill my water aging brute can tonight.

My plan was to start dosing with the recommended amounts on theplantguys website for the 20-40g aquarium recommendation but would I be better off to use the rotala calculator?

This shows current state of things as of yesterday. 45g started on Nov.10th.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
Mg not a big deal if your are watching your GH levels or re-mineralizing RO water.
The meat & potatoes of this mix is the same as NutriTrace in US.
Wondering your thoughts on magnesium in regards to my dgh of 3.6?

45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squisher View Post
Wondering your thoughts on magnesium in regards to my dgh of 3.6?
This would depend on your Ca levels and target ratio.
@ 4:1 your Ca should be around 14ppm of Ca.

3.6dGH consists of???


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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3.6dGH consists of???
No idea? Lol. More test kits I guess? And here i thought I was ahead of the game just getting a gh/kh test kit. I'm trying to keep things somewhat simple as I start on this ei path just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some kind of glaring deficiency right off the bat. I believe I'll just see how the rotala calculator recommended doses compare with theplantguys and then shoot to be somewhere in the ballpark.

I'll assume based on relative success so far that my water contains most of what plants are needing. All of my plants except the Vals have come from tropica emersed cups and I've experienced no real melting or death. Even the most recent rotala and Christmas moss are both doing fine despite the rotala being a daily salad bar for my angel.

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I may not be the most knowledgeable, but thats why I'm here reading and asking.
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45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squisher View Post
Thanks again for the input. The ferts just arrived today so I'm just wrapping my head around thing. @snarkinturtle I've found whether I enter plantprod chelates or plantprod micromix into the rotala calculator the dose amount is exactly the same either way?

The RB calculator is calculating for amount to add to reach EI Fe levels and since the amount of Fe is the same in both the products (although the chelating agents and other micronutrients are different) it gives you the same result for how much to add. I would think that Plantguy's recommended dose should be the same as RB because they're both aiming at EI but maybe I'm missing something.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think you are missing anything I just wanted to make sure I wasn't because of when you mentioned this. But all good I've got it clear now I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkinturtle View Post
Key takeaways are:
1) On the RotalaButterfly calculator you want "PlantProd Chelated" in Canada NOT "PlantProd Micro Mix" and NOT "Plantex CSM + B".

I have one question about ei dosing. Well I'm sure I'll have more than one as I muddle my way through it. But one question has been nagging at me. I've read it's good to dose micros and macros on alternating days. If this is so what is the recommended order of dosing when doing the weekly water change? Like if I alternate three days each of micro and macros on the seventh day(water change day) what do I add back to the tank after the water change? Maybe a silly question but I just like to form proper habits.

45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squisher View Post
I have one question about ei dosing. Well I'm sure I'll have more than one as I muddle my way through it. But one question has been nagging at me. I've read it's good to dose micros and macros on alternating days. If this is so what is the recommended order of dosing when doing the weekly water change? Like if I alternate three days each of micro and macros on the seventh day(water change day) what do I add back to the tank after the water change? Maybe a silly question but I just like to form proper habits.
Today is the point of no return! I'll be starting ei dosing so just wanted to bump this up and see if there was any feedback.

45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 08:36 PM
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The only reason to alternate macros and micros is if the macros somehow interfere with uptake of the micros. It's actually possible for the less stable iron supplements to be precipitated out by high phosphate levels -- though I doubt any iron chelate is much bothered by any level of phosphate suitable for a tank. LIkewise, if calcium is high relative to boron, boron uptake is inhibited; ditto magnesium. Ditto some other combinations of nutrients.

The way to see if it matters is to see if it matters. Try one approach, give it a month, and if you think the plants aren't doing as well as they ought, try another approach for a month. I advise being patient and only tweaking one thing at a time in a tank; otherwise you have too many variable changing at once and don't know which one made the difference.

I'm working through this now with my big display tank. (Apologies to those who've heard this story a couple times before My crypts were going gangbusters, hygrophila and staurogyne and (alas) green brush algae doing well, vals doing okay, swords and Java fern and Java moss slowly deteriorating, and I couldn't get alternanthera or ludwigia to establish. Not sure why. Then I got a bout of ich, during which I turned off half my lights and was changing 25% of my water every day and dosing nutrients to the usual levels in the change water. Along with the fish betting better, the Java ferns and moss and sword started taking off while the vals suffered a bit and the staurogyne melted down. I've been duplicating the ich routine (minus the formaldehyde and malachite green, of course) now for two or three weeks and everything is doing very well; the vals and staurogyne are coming back (I think they didn't like the formaldehyde) and so are the Java ferns and swords.

So now I have to figure out what made the difference: Too much light? (I'm told that's not possible.) Fresh nutrients every day? (Most likely.) Something toxic being removed by the more frequent water changes? (Possible but less likely.) I'm going to have to tweak each of these in turn to see which it is. And I'm going to have to be patient. You need to be patient, too. Ars longa, vita brevis.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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All of that makes sense. But I'm still curious how others dose ei on water change day. Both? Neither? Macros only? Micros only?

45g fluval bowfront tank, plant 2.0 light, 2 x 206 canister filters, 5lb co2 art pro se
10g quarantine tank

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