Desperately need help, been doing fert dosing wrong - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Desperately need help, been doing fert dosing wrong

With a low tech tank non c02 tank, should I be dosing for estimative index or should I be dosing for low-light weekly from rotala butterfly? I have been doing way too much iron I just realized that today when I dosed, I don't know if that's detrimental to my fish or plants, but I'm in the process of refining my dosage notes and I've been dosing KNO3 and KH2P04 for low light which is 1x a week split in half (for example it's 2.80 grams total KNO3 but I dose 1.4 grams 2x), but I've been dosing micros way wrong and been dosing for estimative index not low light like I've been dosing my macros Oops, now I know it's hard to dose very small amounts with a digital scale so when I looked it up today DTPA fe 11% is 155 milligrams for low light weekly which is approx 0.0775 grams 2 x weekly right? I'll skip my micro second dose for this week and do it correctly next week if I'm supposed to be dosing for low light as I have been on macro side instead of estimative index , this might be a lot easier if someone who doses via digital scale could help me fix my numbers so I'm reading them right on the digital scale as I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, not good at reading scales.

Here's what it says on rotala for low light weekly dosage of macros and micros, are these numbers im going to post correct if I divide them by 2 for dosing 2x weekly for low light weekly dosing for a digital scale? please confirm.

(been doing low light weekly dosing, should I be doing estimative index?)

Macros low light
________________

KNO3 2.8 grams, divided by 2 = 1.4 grams 2 x weekly for nutrient consistency

KH2P04 = 244 milligrams which is 0.244 grams divided by 2 = 0.122 grams 2x weekly for nutrient consistency

Micros low light weekly
_______________

DTPA fe 11% 155 milligrams which is 0.155 in grams divided by 2 = 0.0775 2 x weekly for nutrient consistency

CSM +B 261 milligrams which is 0.261 in grams divided by 2 = 0.13 grams 2x weekly for nutrient consistency

Do these numbers look right on the low light dosing side? I half the dose so I can dose 2x a week to make sure I have the steady nutrients for the week, I do a 50% water change on the 7th day .

If I'm supposed to be dosing for estimative index the numbers are higher.

By dosing so much today I have noticed my fish acting weird, maybe they're just happy dunno, seems like they gasp here and there, could this be because of the high iron and csm +B I dosed? Should I do a partial water change?

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 10:18 PM
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Honestly, I would do a couple 50% water changes, 1 today and 1 tomorrow. This will help re-set basic water parameters in your tank.
In my opinion, no you don't need to be dosing at the full EI level - either macro or micro. The plants simply will not use up that much fertilizer in a week.
Before digging into your numbers, tell me something about your tank. Lot of fish? Do you feed them every day?
Generally what kinds of plants and how full is it planted (pic helps).
Low Tech, non cO2 helps but tell me a little about your light. There are a few tanks on here that don't run co2 but are full of hungry stem plants and have a strong light. Vastly different from a tank full of Java fern / swords / crypts and a small light.
Your already looking at rotala butterfly which is a great site. Just guessing I would be looking at the EI Low Light/Weekly calculations for macros and micros. Given the small dosing amounts for the micros, I would suggest making a solution and then dose with a syringe (I use a 12ml syringe for my 75g tank). Weekly dosing on the macros has been working in my high tech, high light tank for probably more than a year.

Curious, do you have any K2SO4? I find that low doses of KNO3 and KH2PO4 don't offer enough K, depending on the type of plants you have.


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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Honestly, I would do a couple 50% water changes, 1 today and 1 tomorrow. This will help re-set basic water parameters in your tank.
In my opinion, no you don't need to be dosing at the full EI level - either macro or micro. The plants simply will not use up that much fertilizer in a week.
Before digging into your numbers, tell me something about your tank. Lot of fish? Do you feed them every day?
Generally what kinds of plants and how full is it planted (pic helps).
Low Tech, non cO2 helps but tell me a little about your light. There are a few tanks on here that don't run co2 but are full of hungry stem plants and have a strong light. Vastly different from a tank full of Java fern / swords / crypts and a small light.
Your already looking at rotala butterfly which is a great site. Just guessing I would be looking at the EI Low Light/Weekly calculations for macros and micros. Given the small dosing amounts for the micros, I would suggest making a solution and then dose with a syringe (I use a 12ml syringe for my 75g tank). Weekly dosing on the macros has been working in my high tech, high light tank for probably more than a year.

Curious, do you have any K2SO4? I find that low doses of KNO3 and KH2PO4 don't offer enough K, depending on the type of plants you have.
55 gallon tank, fluval 3.0 light, crypt wendtii red, crypt balanse, anubias (doing horrible), swords, bacopa, rotunda rotundifolia, water sprite, money wart.

Kh 4
Gh 7
PH 7.6
Tds 245
Temp 76
Nitrate is 2-5 before ferts
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Fish stock is decent, 7 rainbows, 6 ornate tetras, 6 lemon tetras 1 BN pleco, 3 nerites

I just did a 50% water change day before yesterday with huge trims of my anubias & crypts due to tank neglect as I was I'll for a month and green spot algae destroyed leaves, before I started dosing ferts my plants did nothing and I just realized today that I've been dosing my micros incorrectly.

Yes I do have k2sO4 but I was advised to stop using it






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Last edited by Darkblade48; 12-09-2019 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 01:59 AM
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Gotta love a tank with rainbows :-)
Something that occurred to me early on - when using Rotala butterfly I learned it makes a difference how much water you list in the formula. A 55g tank likely does not have 55 gallons of water - even when you add the volume of the canister filter. For some of the crazy high tech, high light, high needs tanks it really does not matter as much. In your case, being a tank with much lower fert needs it can make a more significant difference.
The Fluval 3.0 light is nice as you can adjust the lighting levels (PAR) down to most any level that you could need. With a 12" wide tank, a single light should be enough.
Your plant list does not scream "high needs" to me so I would definitely go with the low light/weekly dosing for macros. Micros can generally be run pretty lean as well, especially seeing the CSM+b levels for EI seemed a little too high in the opinion of many.
"Kh 4, Gh 7, PH 7.6, Tds 245, Temp 76, Nitrate is 2-5 before ferts" are some pretty good tap water numbers. Most would be happy with them.

KNO3 2.8 grams, divided by 2 = 1.4 grams 2 x weekly for nutrient consistency (10ppm weekly)
KH2P04 = 244 milligrams which is 0.244 grams divided by 2 = 0.122 grams 2x weekly for nutrient consistency (1ppm weekly)(about 7ppm weekly K)
(most of us would say we are dosing a weekly NPK of 10/1/7)
The above seems about right. There is some debate about running the PO4 closer to 5ppm vs 1ppm weekly. I am in the 5ppm group. The interesting part of your situation, with not dosing K2SO4, I would think you might run short on K. But, the reality is the plants will tell you if that is the case (pin holes with yellow edges in your crypts and swords).
Your CSM+B numbers above match up to what I am seeing on Rotala Butterfly. Comparing the individual weekly ppm's to what I does, they seem pretty low. Again, my tank is a very different animal.
I would give your newly listed fert numbers a try and see how things work out. Also remember, patience in this hobby is the most difficult part. I may take a month or 2 of consistent dosing before you can say it worked or didn't work.

Recommendations would be making a liquid micro mixture as opposed to dry dosing. Also, if you are having some algae issues, try less daily light power and/or higher KH2PO4 dosing.

More good info - https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...ng-thread.html
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Gotta love a tank with rainbows :-)
Something that occurred to me early on - when using Rotala butterfly I learned it makes a difference how much water you list in the formula. A 55g tank likely does not have 55 gallons of water - even when you add the volume of the canister filter. For some of the crazy high tech, high light, high needs tanks it really does not matter as much. In your case, being a tank with much lower fert needs it can make a more significant difference.
The Fluval 3.0 light is nice as you can adjust the lighting levels (PAR) down to most any level that you could need. With a 12" wide tank, a single light should be enough.
Your plant list does not scream "high needs" to me so I would definitely go with the low light/weekly dosing for macros. Micros can generally be run pretty lean as well, especially seeing the CSM+b levels for EI seemed a little too high in the opinion of many.
"Kh 4, Gh 7, PH 7.6, Tds 245, Temp 76, Nitrate is 2-5 before ferts" are some pretty good tap water numbers. Most would be happy with them.

KNO3 2.8 grams, divided by 2 = 1.4 grams 2 x weekly for nutrient consistency (10ppm weekly)
KH2P04 = 244 milligrams which is 0.244 grams divided by 2 = 0.122 grams 2x weekly for nutrient consistency (1ppm weekly)(about 7ppm weekly K)
(most of us would say we are dosing a weekly NPK of 10/1/7)
The above seems about right. There is some debate about running the PO4 closer to 5ppm vs 1ppm weekly. I am in the 5ppm group. The interesting part of your situation, with not dosing K2SO4, I would think you might run short on K. But, the reality is the plants will tell you if that is the case (pin holes with yellow edges in your crypts and swords).
Your CSM+B numbers above match up to what I am seeing on Rotala Butterfly. Comparing the individual weekly ppm's to what I does, they seem pretty low. Again, my tank is a very different animal.
I would give your newly listed fert numbers a try and see how things work out. Also remember, patience in this hobby is the most difficult part. I may take a month or 2 of consistent dosing before you can say it worked or didn't work.

Recommendations would be making a liquid micro mixture as opposed to dry dosing. Also, if you are having some algae issues, try less daily light power and/or higher KH2PO4 dosing.

More good info - https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...ng-thread.html
Yeah I do see the pinholes & yellowing on the anubias and sword, my water spirit doesn't grow either and its floating , crypt balanse also shows yellowing on leaves so I'll start the K2S04 again, the reason that was given to me about the K2S04 is because my gh is already high, I also forgot to list phosphate which is high in my tank for some reason @2.7-3.0, I even have root tabs under the sword but it just doesn't grow, with the K2S04 you don't dose for tank volume though right? you dose for how much water you add back in the tank I was told? I did calculate for 45 gallons of water not 55 Gallons when calculating the dosing.

How do I dose the K2S04 properly I've totally forgotten?

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 02:41 AM
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K2SO4 is dosed the same as the other macros - shoot for a 15ppm "WEEKLY TOTAL". What I mean by that is you have to add in the K amount from the KNO3 and the KH2PO4 dosing.
Rotala Butterfly gives me 10ppm weekly (3.88 grams). In your case, 1.94 grams 2 times per week. This would give you about 17ppm total weekly K. Maybe a little high for your tank, but, watch your newest leaves as they grow out. hopefully no pin holes. Ignore the leaves that have pin holes as they will not heal up.

Root tabs can add to your water chemistry - sometimes to excess if you have too many of them.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 03:20 AM
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Keep an eye on the decimal point!!!


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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Keep an eye on the decimal point!!!
What decimal point am I wrong on?

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Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
K2SO4 is dosed the same as the other macros - shoot for a 15ppm "WEEKLY TOTAL". What I mean by that is you have to add in the K amount from the KNO3 and the KH2PO4 dosing.

Rotala Butterfly gives me 10ppm weekly (3.88 grams). In your case, 1.94 grams 2 times per week. This would give you about 17ppm total weekly K. Maybe a little high for your tank, but, watch your newest leaves as they grow out. hopefully no pin holes. Ignore the leaves that have pin holes as they will not heal up.



Root tabs can add to your water chemistry - sometimes to excess if you have too many of them.
Okay so 1.94 grams tues/Thursday? I just have one root tab from Nilcog about 2"away from the sword, it could be the sword itself as I originally bought it from petsmart, I dunno it's been a hassle since I bought it.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 12-10-2019 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 04:17 AM
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What decimal point am I wrong on?
Believe it was your last issue with Fe/micro dosing.
I had to tap out when decimal points went to crap.


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 04:24 AM Thread Starter
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Believe it was your last issue with Fe/micro dosing.

I had to tap out when decimal points went to crap.
No I was dosing micros for estimative index instead of Low Light, but yeah I was way off

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 08:44 AM
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Low Tech? What I do:
Do a water change, don't dose, just feed the fish.
works for me 🤓
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 10:32 AM
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Think your numbers are right for 2x week dosing. Truthfully with your choice of simple low demand plants and low planting density the CSM +B will probably have enough iron for your tank. No need for extra iron.

Also 50% water changes will no longer be needed, do your flush/reset and from then on 20-30% is norm for low tech dosing unless you have a high fish load. Monitor your phosphates and nitrates and use that as a gauge to decide how much water you need to change to stay on target.
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