The best fertilizing system today ? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 05:36 AM
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I wonder what you think of the best fertilizer system for freshwater aquariums today. There are various methods such as commercial fertilizers, pmdd, estimative index and others. What is the best concept in your experience?
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I ask because as a beginner I want to choose a concept that is functional and proven.
I would recommend a little research.

@Edward has an excellent amount of information @ https://sites.google.com/site/aquati...r/home/pps-pro

Dennis Wong also has an excellent website https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/
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Growing is not that difficult.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for this links, I must say that I was very impressed by the PPS system.

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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
I would recommend a little research.

@Edward has an excellent amount of information @ https://sites.google.com/site/aquati...r/home/pps-pro

Dennis Wong also has an excellent website https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
This is the right sub-forum to solve algae problems.
I am looking for fertilization concept because I am not able to find stability yet and I have a lot of problems with algae. I have GSA on the glass and plant leaves + BBA especially around spray bar and skimmer.

I try to test the water and understand what the problem is, but I can't find out.

Here are the details of my aquarium:

tank size: 144l, 0.9m x 0.4m x 0.4m

substrate: Platinum soil (active substrate, it is very similar to Aqua Soil)

light: 2x Chihiros LED 55W, but I reduce the intensity to about 70%, so I use a total of approx 80W (40W+40W), from 11:00am to 9:00pm (10 hours)

CO2: yes, I use night shutdown. Turns on 9:30am (an hour and a half before turning on the light) and turns off 10pm (an hour after the light turns off).

water parameters:
ph = 6.7
KH = 9
Fe = 0.15
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 15
dGH = 10
PO4 = 0.05 (but if I measure just after fertilizing the value is approx 0.4), it is because the substrate absorbs phosphorus into itself in about 12 hours (I have tested it)

current fertilizing:
Easylife Profito: 5ml every other day (https://www.easylife.eu/products/freshwater)
Easylife Nitro NO3: 2ml every other day (I add NO3 because without dosing the value in the water is around 5-10, I'm trying to keep it around 15)
Easylife Fosfo PO4: 13ml every other day (other days than Profito) - dose to reach a target 1.5ppm (39ml per week)
Seachem Trace: 2ml every other day (other days than Profito)

Before current fertilizing I try to dose PO4 to reach a target 1 ppm. The situation with GSA was not better. I think there was a better situation with BBA with less PO4. Before dosing PO4 I had only GSA, BBA was not present.

At the end of the week change 1/3 of water. I use 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap water (20l + 20l)

Fertilization story background:
The aquarium is established for about half a year, I have always fertilized only 2ml Easylife Profito. I have had a problem with the GDA for a long time. It gradually disappeared and was replaced by the GSA. After that I added a second light (for support more demanding plants) and started to dose more Easylife Profito and dosing NO3, PO4 and Trace. The GDA has spread more to plants and glass and BBA has been added. I currently have GDA and BBA. If I replace the plants, GSA will very quickly appear on new leaves. I have tried to add more or less PO4 in recent weeks, but this has not affected GSA. I think with smaller doses of PO4 there was only a better situation with BBA.

I've read a lot of articles but I still don't understand why algae attack so much my tank. It seems to me that the water parameters are fine and I do not see a major problem anywhere. Maybe someone more experienced can give me advice?

Thank you.

tank:


dropchecker:


BBA around spray bar


BBA around skimmer


BBA between glass and Monte carlo


GSA on the glass


GSA on the Lobelia


GSA on the Repens



GSA on the AR mini
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 06:50 PM
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Nice setup!

The plants look healthy enough, but seems they are being interfered with by the algae. The thing that sticks out at me the most is the light. One the 10 hrs and two the 10 hrs for both fixtures. I know your running at 70%, but you probably don't need 10 hrs. I would reduce both or at least run one for only 4 hrs or so and the other for the 10 hrs.

To me it's excess light, but that's the way I see it anyway.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 06:59 PM
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I would also be curious to your pH drop from CO2. Measure pH before your CO2 comes on, then measure again early in your photoperiod. Aim for a full 1.0 drop in pH from using CO2.

How are you measuring pH and kH? A kH of 9 (assuming dkH?) seems high for an active buffering substrate. Other than that, reduce light, increase % water changed and frequency of water changes while removing any and all organic material (including cleaning filters bi-weekly). Dosing so should help with BBA, less light + consistent CO2 should help with GSA
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 07:36 PM
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Use a credit card or similiar to scrape the algae off between the monte carlo and the glass.

75 gallon planted tank. About to stock.
10 gallon QT

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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I use two kinds of tests. I get similar results.

JBL EasyTest 6in1 https://www.jbl.de/en/products/detai...-easytest-6in1
JBL ProAquaTest Combi Set Plus Fe https://www.jbl.de/en/products/detai...bi-set-plus-fe

and for PH also digital meter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3292...chweb201603_52

KH is °dKH (german degree).
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 09:24 PM
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Easylife Profito: 5ml every other day
It comes to 0.08 ppm Fe per dose. This is ok, but the product has 20x less Zn and 30x less Cu than other trace element products and that would be insufficient if you were not adding Flourish Trace.

Light period of 10 hours is suitable for low intensity lighting, say 30 PAR. Your LEDs look very strong and plants have to keep up with the energy for 10 hours a day, they get exhausted and less resistant to algae. If you gradually change it to six hours you will see healthier plants and less algae.

Your GH is 10 degrees. This doesn’t tell us what Mg and Ca concentrations are. It is important to know since plants need both and in a range of ratios.

Your KH is 9 degrees. It is very difficult and almost impossible to grow most plants under very strong light in 9 dKH water. You are using 50/50 RO with tap. Why don’t you use 100% RO and add proper Ca, Mg and KH?

Also what would help is a TDS tester, any cheap version will do. It can help to see if there is something accumulating, leaking or dissolving in the water.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for that valuable information. I also have a TDS meter. Now that lights and CO2 are off is TDS = 235.

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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Easylife Profito: 5ml every other day
It comes to 0.08 ppm Fe per dose. This is ok, but the product has 20x less Zn and 30x less Cu than other trace element products and that would be insufficient if you were not adding Flourish Trace.

Light period of 10 hours is suitable for low intensity lighting, say 30 PAR. Your LEDs look very strong and plants have to keep up with the energy for 10 hours a day, they get exhausted and less resistant to algae. If you gradually change it to six hours you will see healthier plants and less algae.

Your GH is 10 degrees. This doesn’t tell us what Mg and Ca concentrations are. It is important to know since plants need both and in a range of ratios.

Your KH is 9 degrees. It is very difficult and almost impossible to grow most plants under very strong light in 9 dKH water. You are using 50/50 RO with tap. Why don’t you use 100% RO and add proper Ca, Mg and KH?

Also what would help is a TDS tester, any cheap version will do. It can help to see if there is something accumulating, leaking or dissolving in the water.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 09:57 PM
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TDS is a comparative tool. You compare the difference in TDS value between your source water and aquarium water. If the value in the aquarium goes down then substrate removed minerals from the water column or plants used it up. If the value goes up then something is accumulating, leaking or dissolving.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 11:46 PM
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I do not understand your approach because it does not matter what plant mass you have unless you are not doing water changes and trying to maintain water column nutrient concentrations. Nothing wrong with that but I don’t think that is your goal right now.

So it does not matter what plant mass you have, just supply nutrients and flush the rest, then refill. This way you will give your plants what they need. I think, … you are overthinking it.
I have kh=5 gh=8 water and light on at 100 par for only 4 hours.
Accumulation of fertilizer(I believe Fe) causes stunting/branching and hair/fuzz algae in my Rotala Rotundifolia and Pogostemon Erectus.

I can't prove anything, it is difficult to isolate all variables, which I am fed up with, but dosing even 10ppm NO3 per week and 0.1ppm Fe causes GDA on rocks and promotes more fuzz/hair algae.

When I initially started all plants were algae free and healthy with Tropica Specialized in the first month. That is much more lean than even PPS-PRO and especially lean in P and K. But as the plants grew in and spread out it was no longer suitable and I saw deficiencies and some GSA.

Switching to half pps-pro has reduced the GSA to nothing, the glass is clean, but old growth in many different species gets fuzz/hair algae even if new growth looks healthy.

That is why I mention starting lean and then having to increase dosing. In my water dosing EI caused Lythraecae, PE, and SR to be unhappy and I was constantly dealing with GDA and Hair Algae. Dosing lean has definitely helped both in growth and in limiting algae but its still not perfect and clean as I would like.

The only conclusion I have come to is that I need RODI water and better control of my water parameters. I just don't see how trial and error in changing dosing is going to get me any closer to my goals at this point.



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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
I have kh=5 gh=8 water and light on at 100 par for only 4 hours.
Accumulation of fertilizer(I believe Fe) causes stunting/branching and hair/fuzz algae in my Rotala Rotundifolia and Pogostemon Erectus.

I can't prove anything, it is difficult to isolate all variables, which I am fed up with, but dosing even 10ppm NO3 per week and 0.1ppm Fe causes GDA on rocks and promotes more fuzz/hair algae.

When I initially started all plants were algae free and healthy with Tropica Specialized in the first month. That is much more lean than even PPS-PRO and especially lean in P and K. But as the plants grew in and spread out it was no longer suitable and I saw deficiencies and some GSA.

Switching to half pps-pro has reduced the GSA to nothing, the glass is clean, but old growth in many different species gets fuzz/hair algae even if new growth looks healthy.

That is why I mention starting lean and then having to increase dosing. In my water dosing EI caused Lythraecae, PE, and SR to be unhappy and I was constantly dealing with GDA and Hair Algae. Dosing lean has definitely helped both in growth and in limiting algae but its still not perfect and clean as I would like.

The only conclusion I have come to is that I need RODI water and better control of my water parameters. I just don't see how trial and error in changing dosing is going to get me any closer to my goals at this point.

Maybe it would be nice to take 10 or so minutes daily to actually enjoy what is absolutely beautiful about this tank.

I hope you are doing that.

It is something to be proud of more than frustrated with.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:02 AM
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I would also be curious to your pH drop from CO2. Measure pH before your CO2 comes on, then measure again early in your photoperiod. Aim for a full 1.0 drop in pH from using CO2.

How are you measuring pH and kH? A kH of 9 (assuming dkH?) seems high for an active buffering substrate. Other than that, reduce light, increase % water changed and frequency of water changes while removing any and all organic material (including cleaning filters bi-weekly). Dosing so should help with BBA, less light + consistent CO2 should help with GSA
Agree with above.

BBA is usually the result of too much light and too many organics in the system. Best defense is uber clean conditions and turn down the lights/shorten the lighting period.

Very unlikely it has anything to do with too much PO4. Lots of folks dose many times your amount without a trace of it.

Also noticed the drop checker looks dark green. What is degassed pH, and what is the pH drop from CO2. Might need to up the CO2 a bit.

IMO, work on tank maintenance, fine tuning CO2, and lighting first, then worry about ferts.

And agree with Edward, why not use 100% RO and control every parameter?

Good news is it looks like you are not that far off. Have some plants growing well, now just need to fine tune things a bit. Good luck and looking forward to seeing how things go from here.


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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 02:43 AM
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Some algae is going to be present in every tank. Even great show tanks at AFA have some spot algae and bba. You just need to trim. Anyone who has an "algae free" tank is lying or has it only running for a few months. There's a reason why people say their tank is algae-free and running great for the first 2 months and then disappears after saying things aren't going great... The lesson is don't give up and keep trimming and fertilizing.

Bump: Some algae is going to be present in every tank. Even great show tanks at AFA have some spot algae and bba. You just need to trim. Anyone who has an "algae free" tank is lying or has it only running for a few months. There's a reason why people say their tank is algae-free and running great for the first 2 months and then disappears after saying things aren't going great... The lesson is don't give up and keep trimming and fertilizing.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all. I will begin to tune all aspects gradually. To tell you the truth, getting rid of all the algae quickly is not so important to me, I primarily want to understand how things work first. Knowing what changes to make and why.
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