Color Deficient and cant tell nitrates, HELP! - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 02:21 AM
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Fish swimming in NO3 nitrate is a fish swimming in its own waste. How would you like it swimming in Ö ???

The fact that nitrogenous waste NH3/NH4 ammonia/ammonium from fish transforms to NO2 nitrite and then to NO3 nitrate, where NO2 nitrite happens to be very toxic to fish and plants, it somehow serves as justification to claim NO3 nitrate from inorganic salts like KNO3 is less harmful. No it isnít.

It makes no difference how much inorganic NO3 nitrate is added, the fish will still produce the same amount of waste and therefore the same amount of toxic NO2 nitrite in the nitrogen cycle process.

The end product of fish waste is NO3 nitrate, swim in it...


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post #32 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 02:43 AM
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Fish swimming in NO3 nitrate is a fish swimming in its own waste. How would you like it swimming in Ö ???

The fact that nitrogenous waste NH3/NH4 ammonia/ammonium from fish transforms to NO2 nitrite and then to NO3 nitrate, where NO2 nitrite happens to be very toxic to fish and plants, it somehow serves as justification to claim NO3 nitrate from inorganic salts like KNO3 is less harmful. No it isnít.

It makes no difference how much inorganic NO3 nitrate is added, the fish will still produce the same amount of waste and therefore the same amount of toxic NO2 nitrite in the nitrogen cycle process.

The end product of fish waste is NO3 nitrate, swim in it...
Nitrate is nitrate is nitrate....
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post #33 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Fish swimming in NO3 nitrate is a fish swimming in its own waste. How would you like it swimming in Ö ???

The fact that nitrogenous waste NH3/NH4 ammonia/ammonium from fish transforms to NO2 nitrite and then to NO3 nitrate, where NO2 nitrite happens to be very toxic to fish and plants, it somehow serves as justification to claim NO3 nitrate from inorganic salts like KNO3 is less harmful. No it isnít.

It makes no difference how much inorganic NO3 nitrate is added, the fish will still produce the same amount of waste and therefore the same amount of toxic NO2 nitrite in the nitrogen cycle process.

The end product of fish waste is NO3 nitrate, swim in it...
This from a guy who claims BBA is the result of too many water changes.

Keep a well maintained tank with regular large water changes and fish will live a long healthy life. I have never seen normal fert dosing affect fish health. Have you? I'm guessing you have no experience keeping fish in a planted tank? Just a guess as no one has seen your tank.

And I get it....... you think ferts are pollution and fish are elephants in glass cages. Heard it a bunch of times from you. Others completely disagree and have evidence to support their position. How about you?
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post #34 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 03:48 AM
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This from a guy who claims BBA is the result of too many water changes.

Keep a well maintained tank with regular large water changes and fish will live a long healthy life. I have never seen normal fert dosing affect fish health. Have you? I'm guessing you have no experience keeping fish in a planted tank? Just a guess as no one has seen your tank.

And I get it....... you think ferts are pollution and fish are elephants in glass cages. Heard it a bunch of times from you. Others completely disagree and have evidence to support their position. How about you?
Did you go to a special course to learn this or were you born like that?

Just wondering, like you say;

"That is not a challenge at all, I really am curious. It's not something I see discussed often, and am open to learning more."
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post #35 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
This from a guy who claims BBA is the result of too many water changes.

Keep a well maintained tank with regular large water changes and fish will live a long healthy life. I have never seen normal fert dosing affect fish health. Have you? I'm guessing you have no experience keeping fish in a planted tank? Just a guess as no one has seen your tank.

And I get it....... you think ferts are pollution and fish are elephants in glass cages. Heard it a bunch of times from you. Others completely disagree and have evidence to support their position. How about you?
Did you go to a special course to learn this or were you born like that?

Just wondering, like you say;

"That is not a challenge at all, I really am curious. It's not something I see discussed often, and am open to learning more."
Guy, come on...
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post #36 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:02 AM
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Guy, come on...
You mean "guys" -it is going in more than one direction.
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post #37 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
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Guy, come on...
You mean "guys" -it is going in more than one direction.
Oh there is obviously two sides and I can tell there is definitely some bad history.

It's a forum for internet strangers to share a hobby. Should be stress relieving. So crazy the amount of infighting.

I think Asteroid and Greggz make fantastic points, though, that we don't see Edwards tank(s)? And, well, Edward DOES come off as de-facto a lot of the time. Yet no pics.

Honestly, I admire your fight to first provide a proper environment for the fish. And I've seen you describe fish diseases, medication, treatments etc and could clearly tell you are well educated in this regard. I do put a lot of value into your posts because of that.

Edit: Also, Edwards post about 'going to a special course or being born this way' is clearly a personal attack. Pretty ridiculous.
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post #38 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:16 AM
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And I get it....... you think ferts are pollution and fish are elephants in glass cages.
Yes, nitrate and phosphate are waste product to fish. It is the end product of animal waste.

Capisce ???


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post #39 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:23 AM
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Gosh you "guys"!!!
I had to "like" all of these posts!!!

Plant heavy, keep a low pH, and avoid the cycle is all I can say!
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Growing is not that difficult.
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post #40 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:26 AM
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Gosh you "guys"!!!
I had to "like" all of these posts!!!

Plant heavy, keep a low pH, and avoid the cycle is all I can say!
"smack"- For making me laugh.


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post #41 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:32 AM
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Gosh you "guys"!!!
I had to "like" all of these posts!!!

Plant heavy, keep a low pH, and avoid the cycle is all I can say!
Yes, KH and BB are the enemies of planted aquariums.

Any questions?


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post #42 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:44 AM
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Yes, can we see your tank?

You guys sound like an old married couple btw 😉.
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it's not that simple.
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post #43 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 04:50 AM
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Edit: Also, Edwards post about 'going to a special course or being born this way' is clearly a personal attack.
The truth cannot be a personal attack, it is the truth and that is the reality, not a personal attack.


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post #44 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 05:27 AM
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Let me see if I get this.

EI fanboys "No. 40ppm Nitrates isn't bad for fish if it comes from dosing KNO3 in EI". "If you have 40ppm KNO3 from organics and waste and the tank is dirty than that is not healthy, but if its just "EI KNO3 salts" than no, because EI could never be anything wrong for fish."

What a silly contradiction 40ppm NO3 is simply not great for fish period.

40ppm NO3 with a tank full of plants is still 40ppm NO3 concentration. If the plants were consuming it so fast than you wouldn't see 40ppm NO3 accumulation!

Will it kill fish in the short term? No, not like Ammonia can.
Will it shorten life span? Not sure that is proven but it can certainly stress weaker fish and make them more prone to disease.

I guess if you have pretty tank shots you can convince newbies of 'your truth'.
But the real truth comes along and without 'pretty tank shots' it will be disregarded.
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Last edited by cl3537; 07-23-2019 at 05:39 AM. Reason: ...
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post #45 of 81 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 06:02 AM
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Nitrate isn't the only end product of fish waste. There are also carbon and phosphorous compounds and a few studies that try to address whether it's nitrate accumulation or accumulation of organics that leads to growth suppression in recirculating aquaculture systems.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44860988900064

It's not just nitrate.

To isolate the effects of nitrate, researchers of course dose with nitrate salts. Interestingly, potassium nitrate is significantly more toxic than sodium nitrate. So, nitrate isn't nitrate.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d1a...10abfe658a.pdf

Bump: Total organic carbon is completely overlooked as fish waste.

https://umexpert.um.edu.my/file/publ...9619_81851.pdf

Lastly, don't forget that nearly all aquarium test kits use nitrate units while all modern scientific papers use nitrate-nitrogen. The conversion is 4.43 nitrate equals 1 nitrate-nitrogen. Without the conversion, nitrates appear more toxic than they really are.
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Last edited by DiscusStu; 07-23-2019 at 06:26 AM. Reason: adding stuffs
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