Remineralizing RODI water - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
 46Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:57 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoulter View Post
Dang dude, you literally questioned him about HIS water and then you freak out when his answers are specific to him?

I posted here to warn YOU that there are safer choices other than potassium carbonate. The social dynamics of this board make it practically impossible for you to get that message or you simply don't care to listen. So best of luck with potassium carbonate, hopefully you will be as careful as Greggz is with his mineralization and this will be a non issue for you.
I wouldn't be a good aquarist if I blindly followed someone's advice without researching it first. Just trying to learn! Your original post provided some good questions that did prompt me to Google some more. Thought things got a bit unnecessarily hostile for a bit there - you seemed to lash out.

I will say, the pictures in @Greggz tank journal look similarly along the lines to what I'm trying to accomplish, so his advice is a good starting point for me.

For what it's worth, the local homebrew store that I like to support only has potassium bicarbonate in stock 😉
Greggz likes this.
jcoulter is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 12:23 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
I'm not that interested in YOUR methods and YOUR tank it doesn't apply to others who don't store water and aerate it for a WEEK!

Just try testing the ph of Distilled Water with freshly mixed Potassium Carbonate to 0.065mmol(~1dkh) if you don't see high ph immediately ~9-10 than you have magic water and I can disregard just about everything you say.
Like mentioned earlier, you specifically asked me about MY tank.

And I also mentioned there is an immediate pH spike when dosing. Maybe you missed that. So nope, no magic water.

I mentioned aeration and flow in the holding tank as it good practice to stabilize the RO water. Thought it might help others setting up RO to consider it.

I asked before, but do you have any experience dosing RO water for a planted tank? By the lack of response, I am guessing no. Personally I only comment on things that I have experience with.

But listen, I have no desire to argue with you. Why don't we make a deal. I won't respond directly to your posts, and you won't to mine. Honestly it's exhausting, not worth it, and just brings negativity to the board.

So good luck to you. I hope your new set up does well, and looking forward to seeing the next update.
markf and Miller like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 12:31 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Maryland Guppy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Arnold
Posts: 3,162
Someone has obviously not completed their online anger management course.
Greggz, Miller and Discusluv like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Growing is not that difficult.
Maryland Guppy is online now  
 
post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 12:34 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoulter View Post
For what it's worth, the local homebrew store that I like to support only has potassium bicarbonate in stock 😉
Either one will work just fine.

And better with either to dose holding tank and let it stabilize.

FWIW, I also dose all macros up front into RO holding tanks, but that is a bit longer of a discussion.
Miller likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 01:32 PM
Planted Member
 
Hendy8888's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 196
I too use K2CO3 added to a RO mixing tank and had to go check the ph this morning. I circulate the water with a lid loosely on top and normally use the water within 24-48 hrs once it's dosed and heated. I havn't noticed any ph spikes after water changes in the aquarium but the fear mongering here made me check the holding tank. At 48 hrs ph is normal, next time I might check at the 24hr mark if I remember. K2CO3 is dosed to 1KH.
Greggz, Maryland Guppy and Miller like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hendy8888 is online now  
post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 03:43 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
cl3537's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendy8888 View Post
I circulate the water with a lid loosely on top and normally use the water within 24-48 hrs once it's dosed and heated .... K2CO3 is dosed to 1KH.
I'd be interested in methods that work for K2CO3 and aren't tedious or labour intensive.
Please explain your full method, from dosing, to heating, to circulating(running an air pump or filter in your holding tank?).
Not everyone stops at kh=1, if you keep snails or neos you might not want to go below ph=6 so you might need a little more kh.

I add ph=8 tap water to ph=6.5 tank water, it raises the ph above 7, yes it can break chelates and ppt out Fe(it was a problem with EDTA less so with DTPA) at that pH but it doesn't pose a problem to livestock or plants that I have noticed.

At what time of day are you doing water changes? before or after CO2 injection?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cl3537 is offline  
post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:19 PM
Planted Member
 
Hendy8888's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
I'd be interested in methods that work for K2CO3 and aren't tedious or labour intensive.

Please explain your full method, from dosing, to heating, to circulating(running an air pump or filter in your holding tank?).

Not everyone stops at kh=1, if you keep snails or neos you might not want to go below ph=6 so you might need a little more kh.



I add ph=8 tap water to ph=6.5 tank water, it raises the ph above 7, yes it can break chelates and ppt out Fe(it was a problem with EDTA less so with DTPA) at that pH but it doesn't pose a problem to livestock or plants that I have noticed.



At what time of day are you doing water changes? before or after CO2 injection?
58 gallon food grade drum that the RO water is piped to with an auto shut-off float valve. Once the level is high enough I throw in a heater and my spare return pump set to max. When full I add in calcium sulfate dehydrate, magnesium sulfate, calcium chloride (yes I know it's highly hygroscopic and has exothermic properties) and potassium carbonate.

It mixes while it heats and I do the water change roughly 24 hours after adding everything. I usually test the tds to monitor consistency. I don't use an airstone and place the lid on loosely once the heaters in to stop evaporation. The water gets pumped into the aquarium with a 1.5" hose and it takes three minutes to fill.

Nerite snails and neos do surprisingly well in this tank with GH 5.8 and KH 1 water being replaced about weekly. Ph max is around 7 and min is 5.9, degassed ph is about 7.3 currently. I was worried about the snail shells but for some reason they do well in this tank. The otos, green neons, and glass catfish all enjoy the low GH and KH.

Water changes are done both before and after co2 injection, during a water change the sump is isolated with co2 on its regular schedule. It takes about 15-20 min to reach max co2 in 85 gals with a trickle filter.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hendy8888 is online now  
post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 03:10 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
cl3537's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendy8888 View Post
58 gallon food grade drum that the RO water is piped to with an auto shut-off float valve. Once the level is high enough I throw in a heater and my spare return pump set to max. When full I add in calcium sulfate dehydrate, magnesium sulfate, calcium chloride (yes I know it's highly hygroscopic and has exothermic properties) and potassium carbonate.

It mixes while it heats and I do the water change roughly 24 hours after adding everything. I usually test the tds to monitor consistency. I don't use an airstone and place the lid on loosely once the heaters in to stop evaporation. The water gets pumped into the aquarium with a 1.5" hose and it takes three minutes to fill.

Nerite snails and neos do surprisingly well in this tank with GH 5.8 and KH 1 water being replaced about weekly. Ph max is around 7 and min is 5.9, degassed ph is about 7.3 currently. I was worried about the snail shells but for some reason they do well in this tank. The otos, green neons, and glass catfish all enjoy the low GH and KH.

Water changes are done both before and after co2 injection, during a water change the sump is isolated with co2 on its regular schedule. It takes about 15-20 min to reach max co2 in 85 gals with a trickle filter.
Thanks, seems like an elegant but very involved equipment setup. You mix and heat using an extra pump and then water goes into your sump first not directly into the tank thus mitigating any possible sudden changes.

My horned nerites already have rotting shells at ph=6.5 and gh=8. The larger nerites seem okay but you have far lower pH than I do and you say the regular Zebra nerites are okay?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cl3537 is offline  
post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 07:07 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
cl3537's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
And I also mentioned there is an immediate pH spike when dosing.
Yes I read it, but what you missed was the spike is less with Bicarbonate.
This argument was unnecessary, and look back at my first post in this thread it could have stopped there.

I learned with sufficient mixing, aeration, and prep time Potassium Carbonate if handled very carefully is a viable alternative to Bicarbonate. It still doesn't change my opinion that for less meticulous hobbyists(most of us) Bicarbonate is safer.

Quote:
But listen, I have no desire to argue with you.
IMO you enjoy arguing very much. You attack the person, demand journal and tank shots, repeatedly ask the same questions you know the answer to, look at your posts in this thread alone. You have read my journals and posted in them, you KNOW I am not using RO water. Asking 3X the same question(which I find irrelevant to my argument) is not going to lead to friendly discourse. It is far too transparent who you are appealing to with those tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Just curious do have any experience using K2CO3? I've been using it for about 3 years now. Fish and plants both are doing fine, in fact very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Have you ever actually dosed RO water for a planted tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
I asked before, but do you have any experience dosing RO water for a planted tank?
Then you dismiss 'parts' of opposing arguments for lack of 'practical' experience and advise others to listen to YOU or anyonelse with long established journals as opposed to others who can't/wont show the 'photo journal proof' that you require.

You were doing the same thing to @Edward when I joined TPT in January, have done it to countless others during the Microtox arguments, BBA arguments etc., and you will continue to do it in other threads and to other less active posters, it is your nature.

In this case my experience comes from having taught a first year chem lab at McGill for years where the students titrated potassium carbonate with HCL to bicarbonate and then carbonic acid (see graph) to find the two equivlanence points and calculate the pkB of Carbonate. We didn't leave Potassium/Sodium carbonate mixing in solution open air for days as that would invalidate the lab experiment, very different goals. But in future I see no need to explain things like this to you or to anyonelse, I just won't bother.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
That brings to mind one of my pet peeves. Folks who read a lot but have little practical experience offering advice.

..........

They can't wait to show how smart they are by repeating what they have read. They have something else in common.They never post of a pic of their tank. I suspect I know why.
Maybe you should keep your disdain for those who don't have 1000+ post counts and years of journal postings and 'marketing photos' to yourself, it isn't helping to encourage more sharing on this board. If academia ranked their hierarchy (they don't!) based on who provided the prettiest pictures there would be far fewer discoveries.

There is no need for some passive/agressive 'agreement' where we don't quote each other, just stop using those personal attacks and I'm sure my replies and tone will be more cordial.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by cl3537; 07-07-2019 at 08:01 PM. Reason: ...
cl3537 is offline  
post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 08:02 PM
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (486/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 13,343
Please don't make me clean up another thread this weekend. Please. I just want to peruse tank journals in peace without bickering and childish fights.

Some of you received warnings (you know who you are.)

Stop insulting other members. It's so pointless. Why insult people on a plant forum?

If someone upsets you, ignore them. If what they say is terrible? Use the report function.
Greggz, Miller and Discusluv like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

somewhatshocked is online now  
post #41 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 12:29 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,999
@Miller my apologies that this thread went sideways.

If you have any questions I can help with, PM me anytime. I have been dosing RO water for years, and would be happy to share my experience.

Keep in mind in the scheme of things, there are at least a dozen things more important than how you raise KH. It's pretty much a no brainer and not something you should be too concerned about.

As to GH, with a tank that size individual dry ferts make more sense. All GH boosters are a mix of Ca/Mg/K. When you mix your own, you are able to control the ratio of Ca to Mg, and how much K is added. Might not mean much now, but probably will in the future.

Good luck with your tank. I subscribed to your journal and look forward to seeing how things develop.
Maryland Guppy and Miller like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #42 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 02:26 AM
Planted Member
 
Hendy8888's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 196
@cl3537 Probably sounds more involved than it is, once your set up it's quick and easy. 60% water is removed from tank and then immediately replaced back in the tank with new water. I use Chinese return pumps that are a good value so having a backup is a must by my standards, in the meantime it gets used for water changes.

I can't say why the nerite's are doing well, I have kept them in very hard and alkaline water to only see the shell erosion. I fully expected with the high co2 I would see some erosion in this tank, but thats not the case right now.
@Miller if you go the RO/RODI route then its worth using calcium sulfate dehydrate and magnesium sulfate for GH and potassium carbonate or bicarbonate for KH. You can start off with a GH booster and baking soda but eventually you will probably want to switch.
Greggz, Miller and cl3537 like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hendy8888 is online now  
post #43 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 02:27 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Maryland Guppy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Arnold
Posts: 3,162
A picture/photograph is a very important aspect in this hobby/forum.
With a cell phone attached to everyone's ear and a USB implant in everyone's skull this should be easy!

Many times people trying to help wish to see a pic of the troubled tank or poor plant growth.
Even to determine a nutrient deficiency.

It is also a large selling point for plant or shrimp sales.
Pics on the sale post or a loaded journal shows off one's plant assortment.
Who doesn't want to see a tank full of discus or rainbows, beautiful phish by all accounts.
Would you buy plants from someone with no journal and no pics in the for sale thread?
Or you check Google and find their pic is not their pic and it's all over the web!

Fertilizer application too.
It shows off the recipe you have been using to grow all of those beautiful plants.

Pics can also prevent false claims and keep people honest.

The moral of this story is basically, pics or it didn't happen.
A picture is worth a thousand words or more!

Heck I've been teased with this line many times and yes I grab a few pics and post them for all to see.
I've even posted some of the finest pearling algae out there!
My wins and losses are out there, nothing to hide.
Greggz and ipkiss like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Growing is not that difficult.
Maryland Guppy is online now  
post #44 of 44 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 11:05 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
The moral of this story is basically, pics or it didn't happen.
A picture is worth a thousand words or more!
MG I couldn't have said it better myself.

Over the years I have seen some crazy excuses......most are kind of like the dog ate my homework!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome