[Request] Review of GLA's EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX. Link inside. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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[Request] Review of GLA's EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX. Link inside.

Link: https://greenleafaquariums.com/produ...x-1lb-jar.html

I jumped on this when I learned about how chelates work at various pH's. I thought it'd be a good way to get iron to my plants given that my gh and kh are both around 10. I have reason to suspect the gh is mostly calcium, though. I'm currently introducing RO water with each weekly water change.

I know micro dosing is a sensitive topic, especially at the moment, but I'd like to learn from the opinions of people who are more successful than I am.

A penny for your thoughts?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:26 AM
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It should work better than regular csmb though I have my doubts on how thoroughly the product is blended. Personally I'd just buy them separately and mix it myself
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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It should work better than regular csmb though I have my doubts on how thoroughly the product is blended. Personally I'd just buy them separately and mix it myself
+1.

And rolling your own custom blend is much easier than you think.

I can put a batch together in less than ten minutes. No big deal and allows for tweaking the recipe down the road.


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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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The GLA EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX is probably Plant-Prod Chelated Micronutrient Mix which Iíve been using since 2004 and it works great.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
+1.

And rolling your own custom blend is much easier than you think.

I can put a batch together in less than ten minutes. No big deal and allows for tweaking the recipe down the road.
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
It should work better than regular csmb though I have my doubts on how thoroughly the product is blended. Personally I'd just buy them separately and mix it myself
I've seen some folks mention "rolling their own" for micros. Can you tell me more, such as where you are getting the ingredients, what sort of guidelines you follow for amounts, and how you are mixing them (I assume some sort of food scale that can measure milligrams)?
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:16 PM
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I've seen some folks mention "rolling their own" for micros. Can you tell me more, such as where you are getting the ingredients, what sort of guidelines you follow for amounts, and how you are mixing them (I assume some sort of food scale that can measure milligrams)?
Here is a link to my journal that goes over the basics...........

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...l#post10937818

You can purchase the items yourself, but even with the smallest package some are a several life time supply.

Or you can get smaller quantities from @burr740. He sells a package that makes it easy to get started.

Then you need an inexpensive gram scale, and you will have micros for a very long time.


And if you need help with the calculations, reach out to me or others here who are happy to help.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoulter View Post
Link: https://greenleafaquariums.com/produ...x-1lb-jar.html

I jumped on this when I learned about how chelates work at various pH's. I thought it'd be a good way to get iron to my plants given that my gh and kh are both around 10. I have reason to suspect the gh is mostly calcium, though. I'm currently introducing RO water with each weekly water change.

I know micro dosing is a sensitive topic, especially at the moment, but I'd like to learn from the opinions of people who are more successful than I am.

A penny for your thoughts?
You can buy almost everything on Ebay from Alpha Chemicals and the rest from other Ebay sellers, depends on your tank size the quantities you will want.

I bought mine from Burr740, he packaged everything nicely and provides a nice plastic box with his cool logo so I didn't go the Ebay route as my tank is small(17g) I have 3 - 10 years worth of everything from Burr740.

The Macros I bought from NilocG but GLA should be just as good.

The greatest issue you will run into is measuring out the small quantity micros (Boron, Copper, Nickel, Molybdnum) you will need a mg scale for that (get a jeweler's scale with calibration weights and go to 3 decimals) but hobby grade scales are still not accurate or consistent enough to measure out 5 - 20mg quantities the error is too high.

The greatest way to solve that issue is to make up 500ml of 50X more concentrated solution of those, and then just dilute it down by taking 10ml of that solution and mix it with your distilled water Fe solution for the correct ppm concentration in your final 500ml micro solution.

If you are motivated enough this is a way to solve the 'non uniform mixing' problem in CSM and ensure you know exactly what ppm of each element you are adding. Also if your degassed water ever goes above ph 6.5 you will want DTPA Fe instead of EDTA Fe so that everything you are adding is bioavailable and there is no decomposition loss.

Maybe it takes an hour to measure everything out for your Macro and Micro solutions and I prefer to add 5ml doses of each for accuracy, so I only need to make up solutions every 6 - 7 months or so. That is a good timeframe as the Micros can go off and grow mould (even with added acid) after a period of time.


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Last edited by cl3537; 06-20-2019 at 04:53 PM. Reason: ...
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Here is a link to my journal that goes over the basics...........

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...l#post10937818

You can purchase the items yourself, but even with the smallest package some are a several life time supply.

Or you can get smaller quantities from @burr740. He sells a package that makes it easy to get started.

Then you need an inexpensive gram scale, and you will have micros for a very long time.


And if you need help with the calculations, reach out to me or others here who are happy to help.
You may have already discussed it in your thread, but how did you figure out how much ppm of each powder to mix?
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 09:43 PM
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You may have already discussed it in your thread, but how did you figure out how much ppm of each powder to mix?
You need to use either the Zorfox or Rotalabutterfly calculators. If you don't know what those are, you should take some time to get to know them.

Here is a screen shot from an earlier recipe I was using........



The above was the calculation for DTPA 11% iron in my solution. You can see I selected solution, then entered my water volume (105G), container size (1000ml), and the amount of each dose (20ml). Next I typed in my desired concentration (.15 Fe), and then calculated. So the result for my dosing solution is to add 27.10gm of DTPA so that my daily 20ml dose supplies .15 Fe.

Now that was then, and now I am dosing exactly half the amount of micros (Fe) per dose. But that is a much longer story.


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
You need to use either the Zorfox or Rotalabutterfly calculators. If you don't know what those are, you should take some time to get to know them.

Here is a screen shot from an earlier recipe I was using........



The above was the calculation for DTPA 11% iron in my solution. You can see I selected solution, then entered my water volume (105G), container size (1000ml), and the amount of each dose (20ml). Next I typed in my desired concentration (.15 Fe), and then calculated. So the result for my dosing solution is to add 27.10gm of DTPA so that my daily 20ml dose supplies .15 Fe.

Now that was then, and now I am dosing exactly half the amount of micros (Fe) per dose. But that is a much longer story.
Thanks, what I meant was how did you know that .15 fe is the ppm you need?
Is there a thread that talks about the baseline ppm of each nutrient needed in order to give the plants what they need as a starting point?
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Last edited by Quesenek; 06-20-2019 at 11:18 PM. Reason: ...
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
The GLA EDTA+DTPA MICROMIX is probably Plant-Prod Chelated Micronutrient Mix which Iíve been using since 2004 and it works great.
Where were you able to purchase this?
Didn't think it was available in US.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:34 AM
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Thanks, what I meant was how did you know that .15 fe is the ppm you need?
Is there a thread that talks about the baseline ppm of each nutrient needed in order to give the plants what they need as a starting point?
Aha, well that is an entirely different discussion, and it's a very long one. I was dosing .15 Fe daily for quite some time, but am now dosing 1/2 that amount.

It can vary from tank to tank, and there are many factors to take into account. My tank is high light and loaded with many fast growing stems. A tank with less light and less demanding plants will need less.

I would look at the Share Your Dosing thread to see what others are dosing, and you can start somewhere in those ranges. But in the end, you really need to find what level works our best for YOUR tank. IME, that means paying close attention to your plants and trial and error.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:58 AM
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Maryland Guppy,
I got it from here before the fertilizer restriction regulations act long time ago. The USA version here does not have DTPA and no B, so B is somehow added later by the resellers and the product is renamed to CSM+B.

The original EDTA/DTPA/B version can be now ordered from GLA here.

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Last edited by Edward; 07-09-2019 at 07:19 PM. Reason: ...
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 12:37 AM
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The original DTPA with B version can be now ordered from GLA in the USA here.
The 1lb. would surely last me a long time.
May have to get one from GLA.


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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 12:50 AM
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The 1lb. would surely last me a long time.
May have to get one from GLA.
What, Ö no automatic reorder option?
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