Is this a K deficiency? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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It's AR Mini. I see some BBA on it too.

I dose EI, but often skip KNO3 and KH2PHO4, but when I do skip them, I make sure to dose K2SO4. I generally will dose 3/4 tsp of K2SO4 3 times per week. It's 75g.

I checked my GH and it was about 190-200ppm. I then checked my calcium levels and it was hard to tell using the API test, but looked like almost all of my hardness was from calcium.

I used to dose CSM+B but switched to a micromix designed for hard water (has DTPA chelate and does not contain Mg). Could the lack of Mg be an issue then?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 03:13 AM
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Hi @jcoulter,

OK, I'll wade in on this one....it does not appear in any way to be a potassium issue. Your dGH is a little high for 'soft water' plant species but I am currently successfully growing Pogostemon erectus and Rotala 'Vietnam' in 15 dGH water (267 ppm) with 65 ppm calcium and 25 ppm of magnesium. I do not currently grow AR submerged (I do have some emersed) but I could try it in my tank and see how it does.

Actually, I am trying to replicate what Vin Kutty described in his excellent presentation at the AGA convention last month; so far with good results. It involves lowing the dKH of my tanks, lowing my dosing of water column nutrients, using nutrient rich substrate or inert substrates with nutrients add to in (i.e. Osmocote plus), and my case low light ([email protected]). I will try to post to my thread tomorrow and provide more information.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 04:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @jcoulter,

OK, I'll wade in on this one....it does not appear in any way to be a potassium issue. Your dGH is a little high for 'soft water' plant species but I am currently successfully growing Pogostemon erectus and Rotala 'Vietnam' in 15 dGH water (267 ppm) with 65 ppm calcium and 25 ppm of magnesium. I do not currently grow AR submerged (I do have some emersed) but I could try it in my tank and see how it does.

Actually, I am trying to replicate what Vin Kutty described in his excellent presentation at the AGA convention last month; so far with good results. It involves lowing the dKH of my tanks, lowing my dosing of water column nutrients, using nutrient rich substrate or inert substrates with nutrients add to in (i.e. Osmocote plus), and my case low light ([email protected]). I will try to post to my thread tomorrow and provide more information.
Hmm, so you think it's just a matter of my water being too hard GH-wise rather than any particular nutrient deficiency?

I was under the impression that the GH wasn't too big of a deal, mainly from what I've read over at the barr report. I could definitely be wrong.

Perhaps I'll try adding some RO water from the grocery store after water changes for a few weeks and observe what my plants do. Could this be a huge difference maker? I wonder...

Thanks!
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 04:35 AM
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I had this same thing happen 2 or 3 months ago and it's been nothing but hell trying to figure out the issue. All parameters seemed correct, except my calcium (test fyi) was 100ppm due to seiryu rocks. I thought my potassium was low due to the holes and the leaves eventually disappearing so I super dosed potassium and end edup with 50+ ppm for weeks on end. My tank did recover, but once I realized that it was so absurdly high, my only thought was that the calcium could be interfering with uptake, so I did five 30-40% water changes last week to get the calcium down to 40ppm. Not sure if this has helped yet or not.

My only other thought is that I overdose on my micros, as my iron was around 0.8 at one point from CSM + B alone. In this moment, I'm stopping micros for a week or two and dosing iron on the side.

Sorry, wish I had an answer for you. All that this has taught me is that EVERY. SINGLE. PARAMETER matters in some way or another. There are threads on CSM + B overdosing looking like other deficiencies because it stops other nutrients from being taken up. All I know is it's something I'm dosing because I used the exact same formula on some plants outside the house and now their leaves turned paler and started growing much, much slower. I was using some 20-20-20 fertilizer on them up until that time.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 04:39 AM
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Hi @jcoulter

Actually, Vin Kutty discussed the effect of high dKH on the stunting of leaves various species in the Lythraceae family (Cuphea, Nesaea, and Rotala), not dGH. He also discussed how high nitrates/nutrients in the water column seem to cause issues with some plant species.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you both for your responses! 🙂. You've given me lots to think about.

The truth of the matter is that I've tinkered with this tank probably too much this past week. I've mega-dosed some excel to combat minor bba, changed my dosing parameters so much that I'm not sure I remember exactly what levels of what nutrient I dosed this week, added a bunch of new plants, etc.. Long story short, I haven't been consistent. Not good.

I put this plant in the tank about a month ago and it has flourished until this past week. It had actually been probably my best grower until I saw this necrosis yesterday. I must have been doing something right until just recently.

Having said all of that, I'm going to stop changing things so often and perhaps try one thing at a time. I plan to look into using some RO water once I let things normalize for a week or two, as well as learning more about micro dosing. I'll be interested in following your thread and seeing your results re: Vin Kutty.

Thanks again! 😄
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jcoulter View Post
Thank you both for your responses! 🙂. You've given me lots to think about.

The truth of the matter is that I've tinkered with this tank probably too much this past week. I've mega-dosed some excel to combat minor bba, changed my dosing parameters so much that I'm not sure I remember exactly what levels of what nutrient I dosed this week, added a bunch of new plants, etc.. Long story short, I haven't been consistent. Not good.

I put this plant in the tank about a month ago and it has flourished until this past week. It had actually been probably my best grower until I saw this necrosis yesterday. I must have been doing something right until just recently.

Having said all of that, I'm going to stop changing things so often and perhaps try one thing at a time. I plan to look into using some RO water once I let things normalize for a week or two, as well as learning more about micro dosing. I'll be interested in following your thread and seeing your results re: Vin Kutty.

Thanks again! 😄

Now is the moment you want to measure everything then. Try to determine if anything is sticking out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @jcoulter

Actually, Vin Kutty discussed the effect of high dKH on the stunting of leaves various species in the Lythraceae family (Cuphea, Nesaea, and Rotala), not dGH. He also discussed how high nitrates/nutrients in the water column seem to cause issues with some plant species.
My gh was around 15, but kh never rose above 5-7 during that time. Right now gh is about 7 and kh is about 3. My parameters are more ideal now and I'm aiming to keep them there now. I just can't figure out what went wrong. Every time I think I've fixed it something else pops up.
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Last edited by Ddrizzle; 06-02-2019 at 06:00 AM. Reason: edit
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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Every time I think I've fixed it something else pops up.
Oh this hits the nail on the head lol... For sure
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoulter View Post
Thank you both for your responses! 🙂. You've given me lots to think about.

The truth of the matter is that I've tinkered with this tank probably too much this past week. I've mega-dosed some excel to combat minor bba, changed my dosing parameters so much that I'm not sure I remember exactly what levels of what nutrient I dosed this week, added a bunch of new plants, etc.. Long story short, I haven't been consistent. Not good.

Having said all of that, I'm going to stop changing things so often and perhaps try one thing at a time. I plan to look into using some RO water once I let things normalize for a week or two, as well as learning more about micro dosing. I'll be interested in following your thread and seeing your results re: Vin Kutty.
Hi @jcoulter,

I have only gotten to this point a couple of times, where I made so many changes I lost track of everything I had done. When that happened, I did 2 - 3 major water changes (50%), one per 24 hours, to 're-set' the tank. Then I started again with the basics; 1) take and record water parameters; return to standard dosing; only change one (1) parameter per 1-2 week period.

Since I have 5 tanks I keep a daily record of what and how much was dosed in each tank, and record any issues that may arise - I refer back to the regularly to help me gauge the progress (if any) of any changes I make. I also keep photos of issues to refer back to; sometimes my memory doesn't remember accurately how a plant looked 2 weeks or a month later.

Roy_________
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