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post #31 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 11:53 PM
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For member comments, I'd recommend they be added as a separate worksheet in the workbook. That way they can be easily copied and pasted into the master. See below for an example.

[IMG][url=https://flic.kr/p/2dR3VWJ]
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post #32 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 01:02 AM
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clarification

Just got my micros from Burr740. Thanks again! and my Macros for NilocG. First time dosing everything and want to make sure I am doing it correctly. Just to clarify on the spreadsheet for the noob in the forum.... the units measured are grams? per week? also is everyone using EI?
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post #33 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 01:23 AM
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It must be corrected that nitrate is not nitrogen and phosphate is not phosphorus. Thus the N:P:K ratios are completely wrong in the table.

If NO3=15 and Pi=5, then N:P is not 3 but 2.1. Regardless, this is too much P relative to N.
If Pi=5 and K=11, then P:K is not 2.5 but 6.6.

NO3:N = 4.43:1
Pi:P = 3:1
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post #34 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ipkiss View Post
Yep. That's sort of what I envisioned too. You can have multiple editors to sheets or even ranges on sheets. I can work with ya and Gregg for testing and setup if u need help.

I also "elect" Gregg to be the owner of this sheet since it's his harebrained project anyway. As long as he hands out editing permissions to us or whomever is trusted, we can help with the development.

And Gregg, in theory, it doesnt change anything format wise that u worked so hard on today. Just the conduits/delivery methods. And u would still be the head chef or only chef if you so choose.
Yeah I am very familiar with Google Drive and Docs, and use them all the time. And I could simply add editing rights to anyone who has a link to the Drive, then anyone could open it in Google Docs, and edit it right there.

And I thought about doing that. But I am guessing many would get there and be lost. And then when you start requesting/granting permissions, you start getting a bunch of messages because many can't figure out what to do. And then when you set it up with a range of sheets......again, many are lost, or need a lot of hand holding to navigate through it. At least that has been my general experience.

Now all that being said, I just loaded the document up to the Drive. If you and @Cichlid-140 want to experiment with setting something up, I would be glad to look at it. We could send the link to some of the usual suspects here, and see what they think.

And there is another reason I wanted folks to post their parameters and a picture here. Seeing someone's complete parameters gives you a better understanding of how they run their tank. The pictures show the results. And frankly, that is what I am most interested in. Show me a healthy, well presented tank, and I am interested in knowing more.

This should not only be valuable to the regulars here, but more importantly to folks just getting into the hobby.

And like I said, I am sure this will evolve over time........or fade away. We'll see how it goes.
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Last edited by Greggz; 02-27-2019 at 02:07 AM. Reason: typo
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post #35 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltHusky View Post
Just got my micros from Burr740. Thanks again! and my Macros for NilocG. First time dosing everything and want to make sure I am doing it correctly. Just to clarify on the spreadsheet for the noob in the forum.... the units measured are grams? per week? also is everyone using EI?
Good to see you made it here. Weights would be in grams. Dosing is weekly totals. Regarding E.I. - sort of. More like we all started with E.I. recommendations then adjusted from there.

I guess you could say we started with the Estimated Index and progressed to a less "Estimated" amount


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post #36 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Keating1 View Post
For member comments, I'd recommend they be added as a separate worksheet in the workbook. That way they can be easily copied and pasted into the master. See below for an example.

[IMG][url=https://flic.kr/p/2dR3VWJ]
And Ken, I like that too.

Just don't know how many keep that many notes. I do, and you do, but I am guessing we are the few.

And if we did add them to the workbook, it would be impossible to post. So folks would have to download it or go to Google Drive to read them, which again I doubt many would do.

If the comments are right here, could lead to some good discussions. At least that is my thought, curious as to others??

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltHusky View Post
Just got my micros from Burr740. Thanks again! and my Macros for NilocG. First time dosing everything and want to make sure I am doing it correctly. Just to clarify on the spreadsheet for the noob in the forum.... the units measured are grams? per week? also is everyone using EI?
Just to be clear, there are no gram weights listed on the spreadsheet. Everything is listed in ppm.

I'm sure you knew that, but just wanted to be sure.

And EI??? Well, I don't know what you call it anymore. But it doesn't really matter. Whatever works is all that matters.


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Last edited by Greggz; 02-27-2019 at 02:04 AM. Reason: typo
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post #37 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
It must be corrected that nitrate is not nitrogen and phosphate is not phosphorus. Thus the N:P:K ratios are completely wrong in the table.

If NO3=15 and Pi=5, then N:P is not 3 but 2.1. Regardless, this is too much P relative to N.
If Pi=5 and K=11, then P:K is not 2.5 but 6.6.

NO3:N = 4.43:1
Pi:P = 3:1
Yeah Sol thanks for pointing that out.

But I think most here know what we mean. N:P:K is a bit of shorthand, I get it. We are really saying NO3:PO4:K. But I don't think anyone here besides you will really object.

And too much P relative to N?? Well that is very debatable. Dennis Wong or Tom Barr wouldn't think so.

You should join us in sharing your dosing. It's been awhile since we saw you and you were allowed back on the board. I'd love to see a current picture of your tank, and your current dosing.
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Last edited by Greggz; 02-27-2019 at 02:09 AM. Reason: typo
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post #38 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 02:18 AM
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It might be helpful to add water source tap vs. RO or tap/RO blend. This will help to explain why RO people may add more copper.
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post #39 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Yeah I am very familiar with Google Drive and Docs, and use them all the time. And I could simply add editing rights to anyone who has a link to the Drive, then anyone could open it in Google Docs, and edit it right there.

And I thought about doing that. But I am guessing many would get there and be lost. And then when you start requesting/granting permissions, you start getting a bunch of messages because many can't figure out what to do. And then when you set it up with a range of sheets......again, many are lost, or need a lot of hand holding to navigate through it. At least that has been my general experience.

Now all that being said, I just loaded the document up to the Drive. If you and @Cichlid-140 want to experiment with setting something up, I would be glad to look at it. We could send the link to some of the usual suspects here, and see what they think.

And there is another reason I wanted folks to post their parameters and a picture here. Seeing someone's complete parameters gives you a better understanding of how they run their tank. The pictures show the results. And frankly, that is what I am most interested in. Show me a healthy, well presented tank, and I am interested in knowing more.

This should not only be valuable to the regulars here, but more importantly to folks just getting into the hobby.

And like I said, I am sure this will evolve over time........or fade away. We'll see how it goes.
I hear what you're saying @Greggz and I agree. Some folks would be struggling with the details of their tanks AND the spreadsheet. Hand holding could, in some cases, be putting it mildly. I know how that goes. Just explaining to some how to open the sheet and create a tab and name it could be a challenge for some. Throw in protections and other issues and the "Hand holding" could turn into a part time job. Right now I'm doing my darndest to get to retirement so that seems like moving in the wrong direction.

You're also right that some way of establishing the status of a newcomer's tank in some standardized coherent format could go a long way toward bringing help to people that need and want it in the most efficient means possible. The trick is the vehicle and I really think you, @ipkiss, @Immortal1 may have inadvertently tripped over that vehicle. I'll pitch in even though there's a little guy tappin' me on the back of the head sayin' I might oughta look what I'm about to step in.
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post #40 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 03:21 AM
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Adding to the chaos now!


And a pic too!
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Growing is not that difficult.
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post #41 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 04:03 AM
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Yeah Sol thanks for pointing that out.

But I think most here know what we mean. N:P:K is a bit of shorthand, I get it. We are really saying NO3:PO4:K. But I don't think anyone here besides you will really object.

And too much P relative to N?? Well that is very debatable. Dennis Wong or Tom Barr wouldn't think so.

You should join us in sharing your dosing. It's been awhile since we saw you and you were allowed back on the board. I'd love to see a current picture of your tank, and your current dosing.
The problem is that most ppl in the hobby do not know the difference. Neither does Barr. That's why it must be corrected. It's an important distinction as the scientific literature does not make this confusion since nitrogen takes many forms.

E.g.1: 2mgl of nitrate-N is toxic to many species of algae. Most ppl will read this and think that's 2mgl of nitrate that's toxic when, in fact, it's 2mgl of nitrogen in the form of nitrate that's toxic. That's about 9mgl of nitrate. (FYI: 2mgl of N in any form is toxic to many species of freshwater algae.)

E.g. 2: Hydroponic nutrient solution indicates N concentration of 100mgl. Most aquatic plant hobbyists interpret this as 100mgl of nitrate when, in fact, the nitrate equivalent is actually 443mgl of nitrate. Thus, they under-dose N by more than 4x.


As for N:P, ignoring the fact that they dose excessive amounts of Fe and thus requires high Pi to counter +Fe, plants grow faster at a much higher N:P according to someone I know who has extensively experimented with N:P. I cannot confirm this as I have yet to do N:P experiments. I've only been focused on determining the effects/symptoms of deficiencies of specific micronutrients in order to learn to diagnose nutrient disorders.
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post #42 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 10:42 AM
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Here's my input:

Ratios: Showing down to tenths is more than sufficient. Hundreds is visually difficult to read, plus we're really not down to that level of accuracy.

Formatting: See below for my recommendations. Changes made were to be consistent with formatting(centering, text height, cell coloring for headiings, etc.). I added horizontal lines every three rows to make it easier to visually track the rows as you're looking across the SS. Plus I did a little visual "sprucing up"!

Hope this helps!



Comment After Posting: Odd, the photo should't be as condensed at this. Column widths/text heights should be revised so it shows up better in the posts.

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Last edited by Ken Keating1; 02-27-2019 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Added "Comment After Posting"
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post #43 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
And Ken, I like that too.

Just don't know how many keep that many notes. I do, and you do, but I am guessing we are the few.

And if we did add them to the workbook, it would be impossible to post.
I'm unclear on the impossible to post part, would it not be posted like how I posted?

Not all would have to post notes, just those who use them. But having notes would hopefully encourage others to provide them.
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post #44 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 11:11 AM
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I'm unclear on the impossible to post part, would it not be posted like how I posted?

Not all would have to post notes, just those who use them. But having notes would hopefully encourage others to provide them.
Ken what I meant was that if the notes are attached to the spreadsheet, then posting the entire spreadsheet becomes huge. Maybe I am unclear as to what you have in mind?

And I like the changes you posted above. If you could, send that over to me so that I can take a closer look.
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post #45 of 437 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 11:26 AM
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Ken what I meant was that if the notes are attached to the spreadsheet, then posting the entire spreadsheet becomes huge. Maybe I am unclear as to what you have in mind?

And I like the changes you posted above. If you could, send that over to me so that I can take a closer look.
Give me 5-10 mins on sending the SS, redoing column widths so it fits better and is larger than what I posted. Will repost the image in my post above to see how it looks.

On posting comments, I see what you saying about size. What may be best is start a new thread once the parameters are worked out, post the mixes in Post #1, and comments in Post # 2, something organized.
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