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post #376 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Quagulator View Post
If I'm away on vacation, I'll leave red solo cups full of exactly the right amount of food in each with the day of the week written on each cup in black marker.... surely they can't screw that up

Along with notes on a jug of RO water: "if water level is low, fill until just under black rim using this container of water"

"Dose 10 mL's of this solution on Monday, Wednesday, Friday directly into tank"

Works every time... so far anyway

I hear ya on the solo cups. During my vacation I used the following for fish food - one side marked 40g and the other 75g


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post #377 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:21 PM
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I hear ya on the solo cups. During my vacation I used the following for fish food - one side marked 40g and the other 75g


lol I use those myself for quick dosing

__________________________________

If it were easy we wouldn't be here

My 30g Journal:
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post #378 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 03:18 PM
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIM...ew?usp=sharing

Here is my current dosing routine, been very pleased with it in my 29 gallon. Been consistent with this for a few weeks. I just recently changed my T5 configuration from 2x TrueLumen Flora and 2x Fluval 6700K bulbs to what is now listed. The new lights are blowing me away, noticed a rapid change in several plants. Better colors and growth tank wide, much deeper reds in my Rotala sp. and L. aromatica, and I believe I'm seeing tighter internodal spacing on the Rotala in particular. Tanks a mess, I'm just letting stuff go while I propagate and fill in, but if anyone would like pics, I'd be happy to provide them.

You'll notice I've left pH drop blank, it's because it changes throughout the week thanks to my Seiryu stone leaching. The day after water change, I'll occasionally take KH and pH readings at CO2 saturation to ensure I'm hitting right around 30 ppm CO2.

Below is how I remineralize my RODI water. I use this recipe in both my 29 and my 10 gallon high tech tanks. I've calculated based on mixing into 4.5 gallons of water, I use HD buckets for water changes.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G6D...ew?usp=sharing
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post #379 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
6.9pH de-gassed

75% of the Fe is from CSM+B, 25% from 10% DTPA

Well the question is how much extra DTPA chelate is available for your EDTA Fe to exchange with? All the charts I've seen say that EDTA Fe is not completely chelated or stable at ph=7. Your results seem to differ, it would seem though as it pertains to your tank the Fe is being Uptaken by the plants not decomposing. So your 'Uptake' is likely quite close to the actual Uptake by your substrate and plants. If your substrate is inert it should be practically all plant Uptake.
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post #380 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 12:59 AM
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Test has begun:
2 gallons of water dosed to 10ppm NO3, 1ppm PO4, and .5ppm Fe and tested.
Mini pump in use to keep it mixing.
This test abandoned after 8 days and no changes.
Fe this morning still sitting @ .54ppm

Began a new test today and will report parameters as soon as I can complete testing.
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post #381 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 02:50 AM
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Well the question is how much extra DTPA chelate is available for your EDTA Fe to exchange with? All the charts I've seen say that EDTA Fe is not completely chelated or stable at ph=7. Your results seem to differ, it would seem though as it pertains to your tank the Fe is being Uptaken by the plants not decomposing. So your 'Uptake' is likely quite close to the actual Uptake by your substrate and plants. If your substrate is inert it should be practically all plant Uptake.
Maybe some day you'll be happy with something that is posted here!

My previous test may have been screwed up by me!
I tested the pH before I dumped it, it was 4.75, it had to be RODI water and not tank water.
Buckets mixed up while sampling etc...

The new test is tank water from a water change yesterday.
Absolutely the right water was used.

Bucket Test w/2 gallons:
KH = 1dKH
NO3 = 20ppm
PO4 = 2ppm
Fe = .40ppm
pH = 6.82, yesterday it was 6.5, so fully de-gassed now.

24 hour Fe test = .40ppm

I'll test again Sunday eve.
If it is .40ppm again I'll quit the test and call it a day.


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post #382 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
pH = 6.82, yesterday it was 6.5, so fully de-gassed now.
I have found it challenging to find proper information on the stability and bioavailability of Fe chelates.
I read that Fe EDTA starts to become partially unstable above ph 6.5 and Fe DTPA above 7 but i can't find a credible source for either of those values.

Look forward to seeing your results and I agree if you don't see a change after so many days then you can conclude in your water with your dosing it is all bioavailable.
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post #383 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:20 AM
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Look forward to seeing your results and I agree if you don't see a change after so many days then you can conclude in your water with your dosing it is all bioavailable.
3 days in, pH 6.91, Fe @ .40ppm
Something should have happened by now?


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post #384 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
3 days in, pH 6.91, Fe @ .40ppm
Something should have happened by now?
I can't explain it except maybe there is excess free DTPA ligand in 11% Fe DTPA(1:1 would be 12%) making all of your Fe more stable.

The only thing I might try as a control is just use Fe from CSM with no DTPA to see if that decomposes. Then you would know that the DTPA ligands in your tank make all of your Fe bioavailable whereas otherwise it shouldn't be based on those stability ph graphs for EDTA -Fe

When was the last time you calibrated your ph probe?
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post #385 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 02:27 AM
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The only thing I might try as a control is just use Fe from CSM with no DTPA to see if that decomposes.

When was the last time you calibrated your ph probe?
I'll need to mix up a solution of CSM+B only to dose in the 75G.
That way it's not a waste and I can use for the test.

pH probe is a Foxboro 873 calibrated 3 weeks ago, re-purposed from work.
Designed for continuous flow with 4-20mA/0-10VDC configurable outputs.
Used as a stand alone device not as a controller.
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post #386 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:02 AM
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Man,

If DTPA does not decompose like Fe gluconate, is there any of the other micros we dose that decompose on their own? Looks like we should be front loading micros too!


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post #387 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:35 AM
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Man,

If DTPA does not decompose like Fe gluconate, is there any of the other micros we dose that decompose on their own? Looks like we should be front loading micros too!
I perhaps missed it, but is there an advantage to front loading fertz other than convenience?
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post #388 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:07 AM
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I perhaps missed it, but is there an advantage to front loading fertz other than convenience?


@Greggz had worked it out that it's a little more stable throughout the weeks if you zoom out on the accumulation graph.

The nutrient accumulation graph for typical dosing shows a pretty big dip right after a 50% water change. For those of us who practice EI in spirit at least. And rightly so because we just halved the nutrient level. And then as the days go by and you dose, it gets back up to the water change level where it gets halved again.

But Gregg came up with a zany idea that doesn't seem so zany now. He asked why not just dump in the weeks worth right at the lowest point and let the plants figure out what they want to consume and we halve the leftover instead? Of course, this only would work if a nutrient doesn't break down in a day like fe gluconate. If you front dosed that, then it'd all be wasted by the next day. I think that was the basis of why micros are dosed daily or at least every other day. So to expand on my question, since @Maryland Guppy figured out fe dtpa is seemingly stable -- maybe even up to 7 days, I'm wondering about the other micros that we dose. If they, too, are stable enough, then why not give them the macro treatment?

Try it out for yourself on the nutrient accumulation calculator on rotalabutterfly. Any number ought to work. Use 5ppm dose every 2 days with a water change of 50% on the 7th day. Draw it out to 120 days. You get peaks and troughs of 40 and 25. Now change the frequency to 7 days and increase the dose to 15 to compensate for the 3 doses. A rock solid line at 30. Of course this is no plant consumption. But even if u add in any reasonable plant consumption number, the peaks and troughs are less with front loading.

More stable, more available in the beginning of the week, and BEST of all, easier! Dump it at the beginning of the week and forget about it!

But yea, I'll concede that I do it out of laziness, and in the grand scheme of things, quite possibly the plants don't care at all, but since you asked nicely..
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post #389 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Quagulator View Post
If I'm away on vacation, I'll leave red solo cups full of exactly the right amount of food in each with the day of the week written on each cup in black marker.... surely they can't screw that up
Funny, I thought the same thing. I went away for four days and when I came back the person taking care of the fish said it all went well. But then I opened the top of the canopy and saw four days worth of fish food on top of the front LED fixture that was sitting on top of the tank. The person never looked to see if the food was getting to the water, she just took each pre-measured vials, opened the canopy, tossed the food in and left. Now my written instruction includes dropping the food in between the fixtures and checking to make sure the food gets to the water. Seems common sense to me, but that's not always the case will all folks.
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post #390 of 407 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:28 AM
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Now my written instruction includes dropping the food in between the fixtures and checking to make sure the food gets to the water. Seems common sense to me, but that's not always the case will all folks.
Clearly now you know you can go four days and your fish are ok?


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