Share your dosing thread - Page 22 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #316 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaozhuang View Post
My tank is probably the outlier, but I'm sure some folks will find my values curious





Substrate PAR vary between 180 to 200ish umols.

Amounts dosed per week
K - about 16 to 20ppm
NO3 - 6 to 8ppm
PO4 - 3 to 5ppm
Mg - 5-7ppm

Fe - 0.1 to 0.15

(relatively) rich soil under rooted plants.
Thanks for sharing! Your tanks are simply amazing and your website is a gift to the hobby. Thank you for being so generous with your knowledge.

Compared to most of the other tanks in here you seem to be running far more light, a richer substrate, and of course much lower nitrate. I would also be interested in knowing your KH and calcium levels.

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post #317 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 12:23 AM
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Dennis I saw this post when I was out to dinner, and was so glad you participated.

I have to soak this in.

I've been seeing more and more of folks who are creating PAR that is foreign to me.

I'm guessing your "rich" soil is the wild card.

Thanks for joining our conversation.
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post #318 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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I think the surprising thing to me from Dennis's post is the high par reading taken right above the Buce. This is something I thought not possible - and yet, there it is. Gives me hope on keeping buce plants with my higher PAR levels. Thank-you Dennis for joining our dosing thread!
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post #319 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 01:39 AM
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The only parameter I have an issue with is the NO3 being so low.
I know damn well that amount of plants "could" consume @ least 3ppm per day.
Maybe classify this as NO3 deprivation to enhance reds?

I've been measuring plant consumption for quite some time and the micro with Fe as an indicator is about spot on @ .15ppm per week.

I've seen PAR near 300 so not very shocked.
My fear @ high PAR is not algae on healthy plants but glass and/or bare substrate growing algae.

I can live with my 120 or so PAR numbers for now.

@Xiaozhuang what are your KH levels in this tank?
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Growing is not that difficult.
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post #320 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
The only parameter I have an issue with is the NO3 being so low.
I know damn well that amount of plants "could" consume @ least 3ppm per day.
Maybe classify this as NO3 deprivation to enhance reds?

I've been measuring plant consumption for quite some time and the micro with Fe as an indicator is about spot on @ .15ppm per week.

I've seen PAR near 300 so not very shocked.
My fear @ high PAR is not algae on healthy plants but glass and/or bare substrate growing algae.

I can live with my 120 or so PAR numbers for now.

@Xiaozhuang what are your KH levels in this tank?
KH probably 0.5 to 1 or 1.5.
Plants can easily draw ammonia from soil, so I don't think N is always "that low". Root ferts also seep into the water column over time.
While many aquatic plants have adaptations to draw in nutrients efficiently from the water column (higher surface area in submerged forms, lack of cuticle formation on leaves etc), most also can draw nutrients fine from rootzone - I think this happens more of necessity, cos in running streams, water soluble nutrients are washed away easily, while nutrients can still be captured in the substrate zone. If one examines common aquatic plant bio-topes in nature - its common to find super low nutrient values in the water column for example, while the plants present depend on substrate zone nutrients. Reading values off the Kasselmann book on biotopes where many aquatic plants can be found:


I don't think this means that using low values or mirroring nature is an optimal or efficient way to grow plants, but it does give a bit of perspective.

As someone that has observed the range of outcomes of extremely lean vs extremely rich dosing of different species over an extended time period - none of the plants above are any where near being "N deprived or deficient" at all - its still quite a distance to that. If I had Rotala roundifolia or any of the species that turns much redder with low N in the tank - they would not be very deeply red.

A tank that has been N limited in a more extreme fashion long term would look more like this for example (see if you can spot familiar species)

Regards, Dennis [
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post #321 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaozhuang View Post
My tank is probably the outlier, but I'm sure some folks will find my values curious





Substrate PAR vary between 180 to 200ish umols.

Amounts dosed per week
K - about 16 to 20ppm
NO3 - 6 to 8ppm
PO4 - 3 to 5ppm
Mg - 5-7ppm

Fe - 0.1 to 0.15

(relatively) rich soil under rooted plants.
Very interesting stuff and beautiful plants, you run a lot of red and blue, your hands are purple under that light .
I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions.

What par level did you start growing those plants at when you first planted them?
What type of Aquasoil are you using?
How much Calcium and Magnesium in your source water?
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post #322 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
Very interesting stuff and beautiful plants, you run a lot of red and blue, your hands are purple under that light .
I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions.

What par level did you start growing those plants at when you first planted them?
What type of Aquasoil are you using?
How much Calcium and Magnesium in your source water?
Bryan's hands...

never changed lights since day 1 so...
Aquasoils - used to be a mix of prodibio, ADA and dennerle in different patches. Found the batch of ADA to be problematic, so I some areas I cleared away the soil and am using ANS and Tropica instead.
Never measured either - from tap water report, there is some calcium and no magnesium, so I dose 5ppm+ Mg if I am doing a large water change.

cheers,
Dennis

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post #323 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
I think the surprising thing to me from Dennis's post is the high par reading taken right above the Buce. This is something I thought not possible - and yet, there it is. Gives me hope on keeping buce plants with my higher PAR levels. Thank-you Dennis for joining our dosing thread!
I have buce on driftwood that stay near the top of the tank and the PAR is >300. Buce is still fine.
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post #324 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaozhuang View Post
Bryan's hands...

never changed lights since day 1 so...
Aquasoils - used to be a mix of prodibio, ADA and dennerle in different patches. Found the batch of ADA to be problematic, so I some areas I cleared away the soil and am using ANS and Tropica instead.
Never measured either - from tap water report, there is some calcium and no magnesium, so I dose 5ppm+ Mg if I am doing a large water change.

cheers,
Dennis
Thanks for the reply and partial picture of your setup.

I take it as a given that soil composition is not consistent and the testing accuracy may be poor.
ADA Aqua Soil Analyse - Aquascaping - Aquarium - Flowgrow

But one should consider that Nitrates, Fe, and to a smaller extent even PO4 and Potassium are available in in aquasoil for plant uptake so your lean dosing is mitigated and the 'true dosing' may be quite similar to other setups.

Your Phosphate (3 - 5 ppm) and Magnesium(5 ppm) (Depends on the calcium in your water) addition are more of a true indicator of your dosing which is generally inline with other values posted here recently. (Greggz, Burr740 etc.)

Not sure about your WC schedule but if less than 50% weekly your target dosing values may actually exceed many of the other tanks featured here.

If I started with TC plants and inevitable lower plant mass I doubt I could establish a tank with 200 par without major issues, your husbandry and experience in plant selection and adjustments could make or break this setup not somethingn someone with lesser experience could easily reproduce but I'd love to learn how to do it.

I also would love to see some insight into what your dosing would be like if you used only an Inert substrate as that would be more comparable to the other values reported in this thread. It would seem your Phosphates to Nitrates ratio is possibly much higher than others here but that may be an artifact of the Ammonia available from the soil balancing things out.
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post #325 of 404 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
My apologizes, guess I missed your post. Thinking back I must of assumed you were dosing 22.5 3 times per week. Thats what I get for not clearly thinking before posting.

No worries. Thanks for the feedback!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SingAlongWithTsing View Post
Ca ppm estimate = 0.4004 x (dkH x 17.86)
Mg ppm estimate = ((17.86 x dGH) - (2.5 x Ca ppm)) / 4.1

could check your water report also
Awesome, thanks! Based on this and a slightly better water report I found, I've calculated a custom mix dosage (second spreadsheet tab). Do these numbers seem reasonable?

Boost (20g):

CaCO3 - 0.8
MgSO4.7H2O - 3.838727273

Macros (10ml/490ml):

KNO3 - 74.5207
KH2PO4 - 14.03
K2SO4 - 7.64

Micros (10ml/490ml):

H3BO3 - 1.3863
CuSO4.5H2O - 0.064
DTPA Fe-11% - 10.1423
MnSO4.H2O - 1.1876
Na2MoO4*2H2O - 0.027
ZnSO4.7H2O - 1.6763



Any suggestions for a good scale?


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post #326 of 404 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 01:56 AM
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For those of you who use reconstituted RO water and inert substrate, what do you use for a source of Cl-?
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post #327 of 404 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 03:30 PM
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For those of you who use reconstituted RO water and inert substrate, what do you use for a source of Cl-?
CaCl2. There's other options, but calcium chloride is cheap and very water soluble. Many people aren't adding additional Cl, however.
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post #328 of 404 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 11:42 PM
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CaCl2. There's other options, but calcium chloride is cheap and very water soluble. Many people aren't adding additional Cl, however.
Do you even use it?

1) It is extremely hygroscopic.
2) It reacts with water in an exothermic reaction.

2) can be mitgated by mixing in water change water and controlling for temperature. 1) Means it has a poor shelf life.
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post #329 of 404 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 12:36 AM
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Do you even use it?

1) It is extremely hygroscopic.
2) It reacts with water in an exothermic reaction.

2) can be mitgated by mixing in water change water and controlling for temperature. 1) Means it has a poor shelf life.
Donít worry,
when it happens, the compound can be fixed by baking in aluminum foil at 240įC or 464įF.

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post #330 of 404 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 01:27 AM
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Donít worry,
when it happens, the compound can be fixed by baking in aluminum foil at 240įC or 464įF.
In that case might as well make up a solution right away and seal the bottle closed tightly, then just add a solution as you will know how much you are adding rather than adding a solid product that is increasingly picking up water so you don't know how much you are adding.

I never heard of plants needing Chloride, that product is usally used to add Calcium, but Calcium Sulphate is easier to use for that purpose.
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