Share your dosing thread - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
 753Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 01:14 PM
Planted Member
 
OreoP's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 248
Thank you for starting this - will save me and others tons of time re-scanning various threads on dosing.

Suggestion: pH drop and source of Fe as there are several different Fe compounds to choose from.
Immortal1 and Quagulator like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OreoP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 01:15 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
ipkiss's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 1,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
OK.......here is the sneak peak.

Since this is meant to be a collaborative effort, why not collaborate now?

So here is the incubator version. Open to ideas. Once we get it finalized, then we need a methodology to collect data and update it. Have an idea and that is being tested now.

So what do you think? Useful?

If you're going to do a spreadsheet and put it into google drive, it got me thinking .. and like archimedes, my best ideas come in the bath... I digress

Because there's situations where people download and upload back, what if they overwrite someone's changes because two people downloaded at the same time and uploaded their respective outdated versions? (race condition)

And because if you just allowed anyone to download the entire sheet and modify, what if someone decides to nefariously modify someone elses parameters? Eh, it's just water parameters, who cares right? But in a more possible situation, what if someone accidentally erased a formula, etc.

and to prevent grief like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Gregg is working on fine tuning the form. He posted it to a Google drive but I can't seem to figure out how to save / upload an edited file back to the Google drive.
And to add another wrinkle - I can't seem to edit a file that I posted
And because it's 2019 and everything is about the cloud, and because google has something created for this type of collaborative shenanigans,

So, you should make it a google sheets to begin with.
Gregg, or whomever, can host the sheet and then we all just get links to our sections, but not the front page or the entire spreadsheet.
This allows you to have a sheet or sections (maybe) for different members, allow only them to edit that sheet, set up references so that totals from their sheet gets pulled into the main front sheet with a nice 'totals' display, etc..
The main sheet can be shared too for select 'editors' so that the maintenance load doesn't all fall to the main person hosting the sheet.



The downside is that everyone needs a google account for the proper permissions to work, but I guess if you're uploading to a google drive, you probably need one anyway?
Of course if google folds, or if your internet is down, we'd be outta luck, but then we'd have bigger issues..


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by ipkiss; 02-26-2019 at 01:42 PM. Reason: added extra reason -- immortal1's uploading issues
ipkiss is online now  
post #18 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 01:47 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,187
Good idea. Let me throw my ideas to the team:

What are the ppm values: a dosing mix (if so, how often), target maintenance dosage ppm or accumulated ppm? Although there is no perfect way to present this, my preference would be to see an indexed presentation based upon targeted results of dosing, i.e.; the desired ppm of each nutrient (including CO2) that we are targeting to have in our tank at any given time ...assuming that this is not what is already being presented. This would eliminate any effect caused by quantity or timing of water changes. Doing it this way would allow us to figure out our own dosing schedules, e.g.; daily weekly 3x/week, etc and the quantity to dose.

Iím not sure that Iíve ever considered the importance of N:Fe, K:P or Mg:K (without Ca), but I view some important ratios, in addition to those listed, to be K:Ca:Mg and Fe:Mn.

Great start.
Ken Keating1 likes this.
Deanna is offline  
 
post #19 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 02:04 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipkiss View Post
If you're going to do a spreadsheet and put it into google drive, it got me thinking .. and like archimedes, my best ideas come in the bath... I digress

Because there's situations where people download and upload back, what if they overwrite someone's changes because two people downloaded at the same time and uploaded their respective outdated versions? (race condition)
Very good valid points. Give too many permissions, and pretty soon the document is toast.

After some tinkering around and testing yesterday, I am working on a new plan.

More to follow..................................

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Good idea. Let me throw my ideas to the team:

What are the ppm values: a dosing mix (if so, how often), target maintenance dosage ppm or accumulated ppm? Although there is no perfect way to present this, my preference would be to see an indexed presentation based upon targeted results of dosing, i.e.; the desired ppm of each nutrient (including CO2) that we are targeting to have in our tank at any given time ...assuming that this is not what is already being presented. This would eliminate any effect caused by quantity or timing of water changes. Doing it this way would allow us to figure out our own dosing schedules, e.g.; daily weekly 3x/week, etc and the quantity to dose.

I’m not sure that I’ve ever considered the importance of N:Fe, K:P or Mg:K (without Ca), but I view some important ratios, in addition to those listed, to be K:Ca:Mg and Fe:Mn.

Great start.
Deanna agreed on many points.

The problem is that right or wrong, the common vernacular for dosing around here is normal EI with 50% water changes. I would love to change everyone over to "target dosing". It removes water change percentage, total tank volume, and accumulation from the picture. But I don't think the planted tank world is ready for that...............yet!

And it will be easy enough for me to included additional ratios that folks would like to see. I'll add those to the master list.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Greggz; 02-26-2019 at 02:21 PM. Reason: typo
Greggz is online now  
post #20 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 02:16 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Deanna agreed on many points.

The problem is that right or wrong, the common vernacular for dosing around here is normal EI with 50% water changes. I would love to change everyone over to "target dosing". It removes water change percentage, total tank volume, and accumulation from the picture. But I don't think the planted tank world is ready for that...............yet!

And it will be easy enough for me to included additional ratios that folks would like to see. I'll add those to the master list.
OK, thanks. I'm out as well, as I've been moving away from EI. Might be a good idea to label the chart as "EI Based Parameters."
Greggz likes this.
Deanna is offline  
post #21 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 04:40 PM
Planted Member
 
RLee's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA.
Posts: 276
I would also like to see the previous micro ratios that were used by the top growers in the past. It would give some context and illustrate the ranges of ratios that worked well. I feel this would be especially helpful to new growers. I remember when first starting out and trying to copy peoples dosing scheme and not really see the results I wanted. Always thinking I had done something wrong. Finally realizing I wasn't that far off just needed some minor tweaks. I am sure a trend will develop over time and a good starting range for micros will be revealed. I think this will help people tailor their ratios to suit their tank. It will be interesting to see how the ratios change depending on how hard their water is Ca/Mg. I never had much luck with the tap water in my area, extremely hard water. Fablau, who lives right down the street from me same water, uses tap and his tank looks great. Seen it in person. I might try a tap water tank again!
Greggz and Ken Keating1 like this.
RLee is offline  
post #22 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 04:55 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: East Shore, Mobile Bay, AL, USA
Posts: 391
Speaking to the "toast the file" issue. Have ya'll thought about using a Data Base like Libre Office - Base (free to all)? I think a form could be created (I'd volunteer) and each contributor would just add a record. The results could be displayed in the form a report (happy to help there, too).

Bump: After more careful thought that would require someone to "host" the DBase which would be problematic. Oh Well ...
Greggz likes this.

Planted S. Am. Waterbox 190 (141G dispaly w/sump & stand)
{new - in progress }

Last edited by Cichlid-140; 02-26-2019 at 05:15 PM. Reason: edit
Cichlid-140 is offline  
post #23 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 05:48 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cichlid-140 View Post
Speaking to the "toast the file" issue. Have ya'll thought about using a Data Base like Libre Office - Base (free to all)? I think a form could be created (I'd volunteer) and each contributor would just add a record. The results could be displayed in the form a report (happy to help there, too).

Bump: After more careful thought that would require someone to "host" the DBase which would be problematic. Oh Well ...
Yeah, most solutions like that have their own warts.

I'm going to try and keep it simple. I think the easier it is, the more that will participate.
Cichlid-140 likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #24 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 06:30 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,946
Here's the latest.

Any suggestions? Also wanted to see if it has become too large to see much on the screen.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #25 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 06:39 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Quagulator's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Forest City ON, Canada
Posts: 1,835
I'm liking this idea a lot. I have no idea how I'm subscribed to this thread? I 'liked' a few posts this morning and somehow I'm now subscribed... certainly not complaining though

Question: I'm assuming the values are total weekly amounts? That should be clearly defined.

Now, I would like to ensure:

1) It is simple to follow, so if you can figure out how to use this forum you'll have no issues with using it.
2) It is consistent, this will ensure smooth transfer of ideas / information for all to see.
3) Clearly labeled so new-comers aren't scared away by fancy lingo and numbers.
4) Clearly defined so as to avoid confusing thoughts or over-thinking.

Also, I would prefer:

1) My name to be in the color red, it's my favorite
2) My name to be at the top of the list

__________________________________

If it were easy we wouldn't be here

My 30g Journal:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quagulator is online now  
post #26 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 07:47 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: East Shore, Mobile Bay, AL, USA
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Here's the latest.

Any suggestions? Also wanted to see if it has become too large to see much on the screen.

Google Sheets has a collaborative feature which allows the sheet to be shared and edited - BY MORE THAN ONE SHARED USER AT A TIME - and the users can see the SS and the edits in real time.


PM me your email if you want to test it.
ipkiss likes this.

Planted S. Am. Waterbox 190 (141G dispaly w/sump & stand)
{new - in progress }
Cichlid-140 is offline  
post #27 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 08:41 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Greggz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 3,946
Have given this some thought, and decided it’s best to keep this as simple as possible. Now “simple” is a relative phrase. After testing some ways to have folks enter their own information, seemed like it was more trouble than it was worth.

So here are the basics. There are going to be two ways to get the data to me.

But before we get to that. Here are some guidelines.

1. Dosing is to be entered as WEEKLY ppm. If you don’t know what that means, learn to use the Rotalabutterly or Zorfox planted tank calculators. You will be glad you did in the long run.

2. All ppm’s will be based (for now!) on standard EI dosing with 50% water change. If your water change percentage is different, let me know and I will calculate it for you.

3. For Ca & Mg, include your dosing plus whatever is in your source water. Trying to compare relative total ppm’s. If you don’t know your Ca & Mg…….you should!

4. All ratios are automatically calculated, no need to enter anything for those.

The preferred method would be to fill out the spreadsheet that many of us are already using.

It is available here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CI...JZdxESN07exBsu

There are two versions of the Tank Parameters work sheet. V3.0 is entered as standard EI dosing. It is the one most folks are using. V3.5 is entered as “target dosing”. If you don’t know what that is, use V3.0. The V3.5 worksheet will also calculate to 50% WC EI dosing, and 70% WC EI dosing. Again, if you don’t know what that means, use V3.0 and you will be fine.

If you don’t already track the items on the spreadsheet, once again you should. Whenever I change mine, I take a screen shot, then save it and date it. That way I have a record of all of my dosing levels over time. I actually have even much more detailed spreadsheets, but that is because I am nuts about tracking every single detail.

Once you fill out the spread sheet, post it here, preferably with a full tank shot. The easiest way is to take a screen shot, crop it in Paint, then save it as a JPEG. I think that will help folks who aren’t as familiar with everyone here. And a picture provides a quick reference for what type of tank you are keeping, along with the general mix of plants.

I will keep a master version of the spreadsheet, and will enter the information and post it. Sharing it seemed like too many cooks in the kitchen, and subject to unintended errors.

You can download the spreadsheet at the same link, and use it how ever you would like. But it can’t be uploaded back to the Google Drive, and the version on the site can only be edited by me.

So for instance, here is how I would post my information.





Now this is preferred, but if this doesn’t work for you, you can always just PM (private message) me with your numbers, and I will enter them in.

So no idea how this will go, or how many will participate. The idea is that by sharing our dosing, it’s a good way to compare methods, and who knows, maybe spot some trends, or ratios that are worth keeping an eye on.

And still open to suggestions, we'll just let it get started and see where it goes.

P.S. I was going to include a comments section, but the spreadsheet would just be too large. So if you have comments on changes you have made, like some success.....or failure.....just include them along with your posting.
ipkiss, Immortal1, OreoP and 2 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
------------------
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Greggz is online now  
post #28 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 08:49 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
ipkiss's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 1,106
psst. @Greggz, I don't mean to badger but I don't think you realized the power of the google spreadsheet.

as @Cichlid-140 and I was saying, if you made it a "google sheet" or google spreadsheet (straight from the google drive app) instead of a regular excel spreadsheet uploaded, you can pretty much have people update their section (and only their section if so set!) of the spreadsheet onto the drive directly. The maintainers (you, or can be more than one if you give the permissions) just has to create a new sheet (page) for each new user wanting to contribute. With a whole page to themselves, they can put in whatever the heck they want and not clutter the front page. You just set up the formula to pull their current dose line into the front page and make it look just like you have it now. I mean since you were willing to parse everyone's pics .. just creating a new sheet and setting permissions for them only to edit would be less work I'd imagine.

At least thats how I envisioned doing it, but I think @Cichlid-140 may be more well versed and have better ideas, but regardless, we're on the same page about the collaborative spreadsheet.

That way, no one has to bother downloading, making a pic, and having issues uploading, and you don't have to keep updating for everyone else. Less work for all ..
Cichlid-140 likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ipkiss is online now  
post #29 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 09:04 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: East Shore, Mobile Bay, AL, USA
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipkiss View Post
psst. @Greggz, I don't mean to badger but I don't think you realized the power of the google spreadsheet.

as @Cichlid-140 and I was saying, if you made it a "google sheet" or google spreadsheet (straight from the google drive app) instead of a regular excel spreadsheet uploaded, you can pretty much have people update their section (and only their section if so set!) of the spreadsheet onto the drive directly. The maintainers (you, or can be more than one if you give the permissions) just has to create a new sheet (page) for each new user wanting to contribute. With a whole page to themselves, they can put in whatever the heck they want and not clutter the front page. You just set up the formula to pull their current dose line into the front page and make it look just like you have it now. I mean since you were willing to parse everyone's pics .. just creating a new sheet and setting permissions for them only to edit would be less work I'd imagine.

At least thats how I envisioned doing it, but I think @Cichlid-140 may be more well versed and have better ideas, but regardless, we're on the same page about the collaborative spreadsheet.

That way, no one has to bother downloading, making a pic, and having issues uploading, and you don't have to keep updating for everyone else. Less work for all ..

The toughest thing is deciding who is the "Owner(s)" (I think there can be more than one). They are the ones that "Invite" others and have the permissions to do extra stuff. As for the use of the established sheet, it could be assigned to a separate tab for each user ie. each user's "parameter sheet" could have it's own tab and could be protected. Entries could be developed on a separate Google Sheet and then copied to the user's tab on the main if desired. The user could add extra info at their liesure as long as they stayed on their tab.

Planted S. Am. Waterbox 190 (141G dispaly w/sump & stand)
{new - in progress }
Cichlid-140 is offline  
post #30 of 407 (permalink) Old 02-26-2019, 10:25 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
ipkiss's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 1,106
Yep. That's sort of what I envisioned too. You can have multiple editors to sheets or even ranges on sheets. I can work with ya and Gregg for testing and setup if u need help.

I also "elect" Gregg to be the owner of this sheet since it's his harebrained project anyway. As long as he hands out editing permissions to us or whomever is trusted, we can help with the development.

And Gregg, in theory, it doesnt change anything format wise that u worked so hard on today. Just the conduits/delivery methods. And u would still be the head chef or only chef if you so choose.
OreoP and Cichlid-140 like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ipkiss is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dry dosing and Nutrient Solution Recipes Zorfox Fertilizers and Water Parameters 178 04-15-2018 03:58 PM
Help needed for new dosing routine fablau Fertilizers and Water Parameters 8 05-31-2015 09:39 PM
another BBA thread, using pressurized co2 nanous Algae 65 10-12-2013 01:53 PM
Dosing EI with Dosing Pump schedules oliverpool Fertilizers and Water Parameters 4 07-23-2013 04:30 AM
Dosing Correctly?? Need to dose PO4?? Aqua_Horn Fertilizers and Water Parameters 5 04-06-2006 01:08 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome