Lines on Leaves Deficiency (solved? Pics) - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Lines on Leaves Deficiency (solved? Pics)

Anyone ever seen this know what causes this? Some type of deficiency, disease, or mechanical damage?

Dosing 30ppm K, 3ppm phos, 6ppm nitrates and csm+b each week. Tank nitrates at 15 ppm.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 01:30 AM
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Hi @Jeffww,

Although you may have some interveinal chlorosis showing up on the Anubias in the picture indicating a need for a little more magnesium (Mg), the issue with the issue with the 'striped' leaves looks much more like physical damage. What snails and or fish species are in the tank?

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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Nothing big. Dwarf pencils, boraras, amano, otos, and sparkling gourami. Good catch on the mg. I'll get some epsom salts tonight. I guess it makes sense. I thought I was getting enough Mg from barr booster in my W/C water but 80ppm of barr booster only incorporates 1-2ppm of Mg.

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 02:50 AM
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Hi @Jeffww,

I don't think any of the species you mentioned are known for doing damage to plants.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 04:02 AM Thread Starter
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I will note that new growth comes out fine. This just happens to old rotala leaves. Also my TDS is around 200. My tap comes out 40 ppm. I ammend with barr booster to 120 ppm. Maybe there is a potassium excess?

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 04:57 AM
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Hi @Jeffww,

If it is a nutrient deficiency, it is most likely one of the mobile nutrients since the new leaves emerge looking 'normal' and as the leaves mature the symptoms become more pronounced. All the macro-nutrients are mobile (N, P, K) as it magnesium. I don't really see signs of a magnesium deficiency when I downloaded and enlarged the image above, I might suspect insufficient nitrogen however. Can you increase your nitrogen to 20-30 ppm?

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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I can try more nitrogen sure. Do you think a weekly ~60ppm potassium will cause any issue? Or should I dial it back.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffww View Post
I can try more nitrogen sure. Do you think a weekly ~60ppm potassium will cause any issue? Or should I dial it back.
Hi @Jeffww,

Excess potassium can effect the uptake of magnesium, 30 ppm per week should be more than sufficient for most species.

Quote:
II. Symptoms do not appear first or most severely on youngest leaves: Effect general on whole plant or localized on older, lower leaves.

C. Interveinal chlorosis. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.

1. Older leaves chlorotic, usually necrotic in late stages. Chlorosis along leaf margins extending between veins produces a "Christmas tree" pattern. Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. Potassium or calcium excess can inhibit uptake of magnesium...magnesium deficiency

When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Leaves are abnormally thin, stems are brittle and have a tendency to curve upward. Stems are weak, subject to fungus infection, usually leaves drop prematurely.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 06:40 PM
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I like the way the quote by Seattle Aquarist reads. Can I ask where it is quoted from? Might make a good read for a slow day!
Thanks
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 07:37 PM
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Hi @PlantedRich,

It comes from an old Master Gardener's manual/handbook I have. Since most of the plants I utilize in my tanks are 'marginals' (grow on lake and river margins sometimes emersed sometimes submerged) it struck me a few years ago that the nutrient deficiencies I see in many of my aquarium plants are very similar / identical to the nutrient deficiencies I have seen in terrestrial plants. Not all plants species display deficiencies the same, nor at the same ppm level, but there is remarkable similarity is the symptoms they display.

Does knowing the symptoms of a deficiency keep me having them, absolutely not. Below is a picture I just took of a Microsporum pteropus 'Trident' (java fern "Trident') leaf in my tank. I recently (30 days ago) did a break-down and re-set of my 30 gallon and this leaf was formed and matured prior to the break-down. It is now in my new 'scape but it continues to display the magnesium deficiency that I had before.



At Arrow #1 note the dark green veins with lighter green / yellowish interveinal areas......interveinal chlorosis. When interveinal chlorosis shows up on recently matured leaves or older leaves it is typically a magnesium issue. Either insufficient magnesium is available or excesses of another nutrient (such as potassium or calcium in the case of magnesium) are interfering with the uptake of magnesium by the plant. In the picture you can also see a newer leaf being formed as well as a recently matured leaf, neither show signs of magnesium deficiency. The soft water here in Seattle as very little mineral content and is very soft with 2.0 dKH and 2.0 dGH. As result I have to the opportunity see and identify various nutrient deficiencies on a regular basis.

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Last edited by Seattle_Aquarist; 02-03-2019 at 07:52 PM. Reason: ..
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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@Seattle_Aquarist,

Thank you for being so helpful! I think I will try to change one thing a time. This week I will dose less potassium from the GH booster and replace it with nitrates. If it doesn't improve I will increase Mg next week. Luckily it seems to only affect old leaves so the plants appear relatively healthy.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 10:59 PM
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I like the approach of trying a single item at a time and as Roy has mentioned, it is not always obvious, so we may have to take several shots to find the right combo. And what I see in tanks does also relate to what I see in the yard. My situation is totally different than Roy as my yard is a small layer of topsoil spread over the underlying limestone. The limestone makes the water very hard and very alkaline and in the yard it makes it very hard for most plants to grow really well as they are only in about 12 inches of soil and then meet a layer of soft limestone that is locally called "caliche" with solid limestone a few inches below. I have CA to no end and often see chlorosis which first made me think a MG shortage. But it is not true, it is simply that the CA is so high that plants can't use the MG that is all around them. Being here for about ten years off and on, I find that I have to work out how to get each plant to do better. I currently have a rose blooming but the leaves are yellowing and falling off!
This is not a simple game we play, so I have fallen back to just feeling good if it works at all, whether in the tank or in the yard!
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 06:09 PM
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I am having the same issue with my stem plants, mainly Rotala's.

Chris
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-09-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
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I am having the same issue with my stem plants, mainly Rotala's.
Hi Chris,

Please start a new thread with some pictures, tank size, dosing regime, and water parameter information so we don't "muddy up" this thread.

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 07:21 PM
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Otos or large, heavy snails will cause that kind of dmg. It sucks the leaves and the weight of the fish/snail will cause the leaves to bend and then break. It's not a deficiency issue. However, the leaves of the Rotala are not the healthiest as indicated by the slightl downward curling. That's also an excess amount of K; there's almost no reason to ever dose so much as that can cause issues on their own right.
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