11kh 13gh, low Carb? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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11kh 13gh, low Carb?

I have low Ca symptoms in my tank when it is very packed with growth. AR mini red gets transparent new growth with normal pink veins.

If Gh is 13 and KH is 11, does that basically mean my usable calcium is very low?
Should I dose GH booster to say.. Gh 15?


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 08:30 PM
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Hi @Chlorophile,

Pictures would be helpful.

Is dKH=11 and dGH=13 your tap water or tank water?

Do you dose any sort of GH Booster currently?

Did the S. repens with the white leaves improve with dosing of iron?

Roy_________
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @Chlorophile,

Pictures would be helpful.

Is dKH=11 and dGH=13 your tap water or tank water?

Do you dose any sort of GH Booster currently?

Did the S. repens with the white leaves improve with dosing of iron?
I switched back to Thrive+ and the staurogyne has color now, yes
That is my tap water, I don't dose GH booster and i have inert substrate.
Here's a pic of some that I moved to my new tank, it looks the same as in the other tank still.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-2018, 09:19 PM
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Hi @Chlorophile,

Do you have a current pH reading as well (tank water not tap water)?

Roy_________
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 04:33 AM
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Not going to steal Roy's answer, but it might be helpful for your conversation to mention that Thrive+ uses DTPA in addition to EDTA iron
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @Chlorophile,

Do you have a current pH reading as well (tank water not tap water)?
Without co2 it's like a 7.5/7.6

Quote:
Originally Posted by natemcnutty View Post
Not going to steal Roy's answer, but it might be helpful for your conversation to mention that Thrive+ uses DTPA in addition to EDTA iron <a href="https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" >:-)</a>
What's your significance in mentioning that?
Haven't been on the Thrive long, was on burrs mix 4x a week for over a year and that's when I was having the pale stauro, the AR was doing really really well at first, the water department change the water chemistry in winter too...


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Last edited by Darkblade48; 12-31-2018 at 01:21 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
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What's your significance in mentioning that?
Haven't been on the Thrive long, was on burrs mix 4x a week for over a year and that's when I was having the pale stauro, the AR was doing really really well at first, the water department change the water chemistry in winter too...
What were you doing for Iron when you were doing Burr's micro formula? How much of it were you adding to the micro mix?

Iron by itself does not stay in the water column for the plants to absorb through their leaves, so we complex or chelate it with something else to keep it in the water. These complexing/chelating agents are pH dependent - some unbind from Iron at different pH levels.

DTPA Iron tends to be better for us, especially when our pH goes over 7. I'm not sure if EDTA is easier for plants to absorb than DTPA, but Thrive uses both types.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
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Without co2 it's like a 7.5/7.6
Hi @Chlorophile,

Thrive + is tanks with a pH of 7.0 or less because some of the iron in the nutrient is EDTA; when you use up the Thrive + you may want to change over to regular Thrive or start dosing iron in ferrous gluconate or EDDHA form.
Quote:
Thrive+ is specially designed for high tech, low ph(7ph or under) tanks.
However, I don't think iron is the primary issue this time.

1) Are you conscientious about doing weekly water changes? What percentage do you change?

2) Do you happen to know your nitrate level (ppm of NO3)?

Roy_________
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natemcnutty View Post
What were you doing for Iron when you were doing Burr's micro formula? How much of it were you adding to the micro mix?

Iron by itself does not stay in the water column for the plants to absorb through their leaves, so we complex or chelate it with something else to keep it in the water. These complexing/chelating agents are pH dependent - some unbind from Iron at different pH levels.

DTPA Iron tends to be better for us, especially when our pH goes over 7. I'm not sure if EDTA is easier for plants to absorb than DTPA, but Thrive uses both types.
I think it was a .2ppm iron mix I had, dosed 4x a week. pH with co2 is 6.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @Chlorophile,

Thrive + is tanks with a pH of 7.0 or less because some of the iron in the nutrient is EDTA; when you use up the Thrive + you may want to change over to regular Thrive or start dosing iron in ferrous gluconate or EDDHA form.


However, I don't think iron is the primary issue this time.

1) Are you conscientious about doing weekly water changes? What percentage do you change?

2) Do you happen to know your nitrate level (ppm of NO3)?
Right, I have used thrive+ before and may be important to note this issue didn't start when I switched to thrive+, it started around the time I saw the Iron issue in Staurogyne,
Which if you saw the insane amount of Clinopodium and Limno Rugosa I had in that tank, it was probably stealing most of the nutrients.

I do 50% waterchanges every Sunday,

I don't know what my actual NO3 PPM is because the nitrate test kit I have gives me a bizarre range.
I was on EI 2 weeks ago and I was dosing:
8.35 PPM NO3 Every other day

Now with Thrive+ I guess I'm closer to 7ppm NO3 every other day, but it has Urea in it I believe so actual N should be higher


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 03:50 AM
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I do 50% waterchanges every Sunday,
Hi @Chlorophile,

It is a good thing doing the 50% water change because the Seiryu stone (Ying Stone) in the tank can add a lot of calcium to the water. Here is what I suggest, keep all of your dosing levels and light levels, and water changes as they have been for the next two weeks. We are going to add some magnesium to your dosing. Pick up some Epsom Salt at your local grocery or drug store. Buy the cheapest stuff on the shelf with no additives, scents, or perfumes. Do an initial dose of 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Thereafter, when you do weekly water changes add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added. Observe your plants for the next two weeks; watch the new leaves as they emerge (do not watch the existing leaves they will not change and may continue to decline). Do the new leaves look straighter, greener, healthier? If so we are on the right path. If the new leaves show improvement but symptoms still persist we will re-evaluate the dosing level. Keep us posted as things progress! -Roy

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 03:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @Chlorophile,

It is a good thing doing the 50% water change because the Seiryu stone (Ying Stone) in the tank can add a lot of calcium to the water. Here is what I suggest, keep all of your dosing levels and light levels, and water changes as they have been for the next two weeks. We are going to add some magnesium to your dosing. Pick up some Epsom Salt at your local grocery or drug store. Buy the cheapest stuff on the shelf with no additives, scents, or perfumes. Do an initial dose of 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Thereafter, when you do weekly water changes add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added. Observe your plants for the next two weeks; watch the new leaves as they emerge (do not watch the existing leaves they will not change and may continue to decline). Do the new leaves look straighter, greener, healthier? If so we are on the right path. If the new leaves show improvement but symptoms still persist we will re-evaluate the dosing level. Keep us posted as things progress! -Roy
Ahh the Seiryu isn't in the tank with the issue - the tank with the issue is just garnet sand and plants.
I can try magnesium - I've had good results with it before - I cut the plants way way back and i'll add magnesium to see what happens.
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